Holiday entitlement-sickness absence.

[Cheryl]

Hi there, I would appreciate some advice on this matter if you can please! I have returned to work after having five and a half month on the sick due to an accident at work. During this time I had three weeks annual leave to take. Two of them I went abroad on holiday with permission from my doctor who wrote me a letter to give to my manager. This holiday was booked months In advance and my doctor said it would be beneficial for me to go. On returning to work my manager told me. I. Could only have one weeks holiday back as the other two I went on holiday even though I was still sick. I'm so confused as if I don't get them back does this mean I have had two absences and I have said to him my condition was exactly the same before I went away, when in was away and when I came back and my doctor can verify this. Is he right? I don't want to make an issue out of this if I am wrong! I would appreciate any advise you can give me please.

[fishtank]

It's a bit murky.
To be honest the position I would take would be that you did not at any point make a request to take annual leave during your sick absence and were simply informing your manager and asking permission to be away from your normal place of residence as per the sick absence policy.

That will obviously depend on the wording of the letter you sent in to your manager.
You will need to get the union involved in this though because it could get messy.

The first thing you have to get is a copy of your sick absence record to determine if he actually has put it through as two separate periods.

[clashcityrocker]

Your manager is being a bit of an arse.
You can't be considered to have been on annual leave when you were off sick.
Had the holiday been the last 2 weeks of your sick leave, it might have been understandable.
But it wasn't, so it isn't.

[Cheryl]

I have had a look at my absence history and it has been classed as one absence 163 days. I didn't actually send a letter to my manager requesting annual leave as he told me that I couldn't go on holiday while I was sick unless I had consent from my doctor as he said if I was sick then I had to be contactable at all time and this wouldn't happen if I was abroad. I spoke to the doctor about this and this is what she wrote " this patient has been decided unfit for work due to (..............) which both require further investigation. There is no reason why she cannot go on holiday." At no time did I request annual leave.

[clashcityrocker]

If you are in the system as being off sick, you can't simultaneously be on annual leave.
Ask him for a print out of your holiday entitlement.
If the two weeks are missing, phone HR and ask them how that is possible.

[Cheryl]

I have phoned HR and they refused to answer my question and said I need to discuss it with my manager. I then spoke to my union rep who then told me that my manager was right! I feel as if I am just going round in circles. I told my manager that it is impossible to be on annual leave and sick leave at the same time but is still adamant that he is right. Do I kick up a fuss or am I fighting a loosing battled?

[clashcityrocker]

Kick up a fuss.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

read this, lodage a stage 1 disagreement over it, get your rep to help you lodge the disagreement, he doesnt need to agree with you just ask him to help you lodge it

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=3860" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Cheryl]

Thanks for all the useful tips and advice.

[Harv12]

About 8 / 9 year ago i was on the sick with a bad back for well over a month. was back and forth to doctors but it wasn't giving up, it came to my weeks holidya whcih had been booked up months before i was on the sick, i mentioned this to my manager at the time and he said id need to see my doc for a letter stateing it was ok for me to fly, i saw my doc and she said the sick note was enough and if my manager wanted a note he had to request and pay, i told him this and he refused saying he wasn't paying, so went back to docs to ask again and again was refused. I couldn't get intouch with my manager on the friday or the saturday morning but left messages which he didn't return. i was flying on saturday afternoon.

came back from our hols a week later to find a letter from my manager stating as i was unbale to be contacted while i was away i had breached sickness protocols etc and he had stopped my pay, even tho i had my mobile on me and my feinds and family had been intouch as it was my birthday he also had my number fuming i went down to the office he was on his hols so spoke to line manager who said he would sort it out and be intouch, he reinstated my pay, but the following week the office manager came back he stopped my pay saying it shouldn't have been reinstated. basicly if i didn't return to work i wasn't getting paid.

so i retuned to work, he told me since i hadn't returned to work as agreed with royal mail doctor and hadn't started my return to work plan and was uncontactable i was in breach, so had my pay stopped, thing is in the return to work notes it stated that if my gp was in agreement i was to return to work but obvs since she had given me another 3 weeks sick note she wasn't.

Anyways phoned union and after months of them doing nothing whats so ever i was left without 2 weeks hols and nearly 3 weeks with no pay.

as of now i don't trust Union or any royal mail mangement,

[Cheryl]

Goodness me! I think all management must be the same. Do any of them have management qualifications and do any of them know anything about employment law. It seems to me they just do what they want to and they get away with it.
If I am not entitled to my holidays back that is fine but I would like find out royal mails protocol on this matter. I will ask my manager if he can provide me with the information he has used to come up with this decision.