let's hold our nerve and be just a bit grown up

[stephen500]

Well it's another industrial dispute.
I have seen a few over the years, since joining as a postal cadet in the 70s, when Jackson ( with a bushey moustache, that one couldn't take seriously) was in charge as the then Gen Sec of The Union of Postal Workers.
He led us for 15 years.
In 1971 we had (I had not joined then, being in school till 1977, when I became a postal cadet at Croydon Mlo) a postal strike lasting 47 days!
Since then I have been involved in lot's of "wildcat" strikes and some official ones.
As a union we have not won them all.
But I do know over the years, thanks to our union we enjoyed:
Double pay after 12 hours overtime
Six weeks annual leave
Night allowance being included in pay when sick or on annual leave.
Over the years that has been worth to me, £516 a year and that is just Annual leave, when I have been ill this has also helped.
In the early 80s saw the advent or the Ag.
I remember being asked, having transferred to Mitcham sorting office, to go to Croydon mlo in the evening to do 4 hrs docket, to try and prevent ags being introduced.
Eventully Ags joined us.
Further more at the time most sorting offices had few women at all.
In Mitcham there were none, in Croydon one or two.
In 1987 I moved up North and the Mail centre I joined has two or three.
So since then a lot of females have joined us and Ags.
The advent of the casual soon came along and threatened to weaken our position as a union.
The "closed shop" which existed when I joined has now long gone.
M Thatcher weakened the unions with her trade union acts.
The Cwu was born and it now operated in a much inferior environment.
Wild cat strikes were now illegal as are flying pickets.
Unofficial industrial action could be countered with high court injunctions and the union having its funds impounded.
So in a new era of diminishing union strength and increasing employer power, the union has done well to protect our pay and conditions.
Apart from deliveries, where I think as a union we have not done as well protecting these members, the union has kept our terms and conditions way above those of the general population.
So we are here in 2013.
There are calls to strike, calls not to strike.
The economy is where this government wants it to be, in terms of high unemployment, low overall wages, high rents. little housing and worker set against the unemployed.
Our position is one where we all fear for our jobs, homes and the ability to pay our bills.
The union has to carry those that want to strike, those who don't and threaten on a daily basis to cross picket lines.
It has to walk the plank of getting the best agreement, not being sure we as members will support them when the crunch comes.
Mean while Royal Mail has employees who are not members along with casual workers ready to work to undermine the union.
So to end...I have been reliably informed that this:
"Will indeed be the last extension...there will be no more.
That the Pec will meet on Monday the 25th of November to consider action.
The aim will be to focus minds on both sides to finalise an agreement.
The union will not allow the dispute to drag on past Christmas."
Hopefully we will have a five year deal which will be good if achieved.
We will have decent pay deal. But for me this must include back pay!
Our pensions will be more protected and postman not made to work over their time for no recompense.
Stick with the union. We have far better terms and conditions then out there.
Stop bleating all the time. Rm see your bleating and this weakens our position further.
Unity is strength.

[DB1100]

Lovely,then everything will be rosy in the mail centres and delivery will still be shafted,try working in delivery for a bit and experience some of the managers that we have to put up with.

[stephen500]

Lovely,then everything will be rosy in the mail centres and delivery will still be shafted,try working in delivery for a bit and experience some of the managers that we have to put up with.

I have never suggested selling deliveries out. I know plenty who have, I am happy to let the union keep on talking to protect postman. And yes I have done deliveries, plenty of them.

[gand]

Lovely,then everything will be rosy in the mail centres and delivery will still be shafted,try working in delivery for a bit and experience some of the managers that we have to put up with.

I have never suggested selling deliveries out. I know plenty who have, I am happy to let the union keep on talking to protect postman. And yes I have done deliveries, plenty of them.

Have you done a P&L van share for a few weeks?

[pcb]

Tip DSA and then outward for 8 hours a day!
Everyone works stop trying to pxxx higher!

[demon]

love working in the mail centres .but delivers are a lot worse and they must be looked after

[Cut Off King]

Lovely,then everything will be rosy in the mail centres and delivery will still be shafted,try working in delivery for a bit and experience some of the managers that we have to put up with.

I have never suggested selling deliveries out. I know plenty who have, I am happy to let the union keep on talking to protect postman. And yes I have done deliveries, plenty of them.

I'm not getting at you personally as a lot of your statement if true, however the bit where you said " selling deliveries out" makes me laugh.....We HAVE already been sold out !

The reality is that the BT2010 deal that was endorsed with a fanfare of "Deal of the century" by the CWU, effectivly gave RM managers the tools to beat delivery staff into the ground. Local reps often don't know how to fight back against these tactics...leaving staff to back down or be bullied. The reality of delivery means that its a normal day to come in early, work over your time & do D2D's in your own time to complete your duty. I worked 10.5 hours today without a break and I wasn't the only one, nor was I the last one back. Any agreement that the CWU brings forward is NOT going to reverse this state of affairs. RM are NOT going to give up LAPSING & paying someone 6 hours pay to do a 8 hour duty etc. RM have got a taste of the goodlife, i.e. people working part of the day for free.

I'm sure if a deal is done it will mean a few more penny's in our pockets, but at the cost of quality of life

[DB1100]

Tip DSA and then outward for 8 hours a day!
Everyone works stop trying to pxxx higher!

Yeah right,get on park and loop,no comparison.

[pcb]

Let get this straight you worked for 10 and a half hours today,without a break?
So you chose not to take your scheduled break?
So you went in early before your time?
So you have repeatedly been told by the union to come in when you are supposed to?
So you're manager stands there with a gun and forces you to do as he/she says?
So you don't go to your rep and complain and then use the national agreements and ET?

[Cut Off King]

Let get this straight you worked for 10 and a half hours today,without a break?
So you chose not to take your scheduled break?
So you went in early before your time?
So you have repeatedly been told by the union to come in when you are supposed to?
So you're manager stands there with a gun and forces you to do as he/she says?
So you don't go to your rep and complain and then use the national agreements and ET?

Lets put it this way, unless you come and spend a few years in delivery, your never going to understand, and to be honest I'm too tired to argue. I'm just letting you know what delivery is like now.

[DB1100]

Let get this straight you worked for 10 and a half hours today,without a break?
So you chose not to take your scheduled break?
So you went in early before your time?
So you have repeatedly been told by the union to come in when you are supposed to?
So you're manager stands there with a gun and forces you to do as he/she says?
So you don't go to your rep and complain and then use the national agreements and ET?

If you come in on your time and work to your time you are constantly being tested and accused of underperforming,then when it's your day off the manager will put a runner on your walk,the runner will not do d2d,s,he will bring back the deliveries that are a little of the beaten track,he will put packets back in your rough bag for you to do the next day,any killoffs will be took out with him and then reposted so he doesn't have to do them,no vehicle check and every possible corner cut,another tactic by managers is,say if your start time is 0800 when it's your day off or you are on holiday he will offer the floater an hours sorting from 0630 to 0730,the floater needing the money will come in early to do this sorting which usually only takes 30mins or so then he is on your round chucking it out.New starters are constantly given hints that their contract might not be renewed,if you say you are cutting off you are given a talk on how the figures are down and if you were better organised you would be out on time ,this is the realities of park and loop pcb.

[mailmonkey]

Let get this straight you worked for 10 and a half hours today,without a break?
So you chose not to take your scheduled break?
So you went in early before your time?
So you have repeatedly been told by the union to come in when you are supposed to?
So you're manager stands there with a gun and forces you to do as he/she says?
So you don't go to your rep and complain and then use the national agreements and ET?

If only all DOs were like that.

I see colleagues all the time being hectored and harried (bullied) into working over their time. I see nobody using trollies on Pand L. I see people coming in early and working through their breaks. I see local rep unable to stop any of this.

Divisional rep came down to our office to bully the staff into voting yes on the revisions.

Same divisional rep who signed a 'letter' to all CWU members urging us to vote YES to industrial action (in this current 'active' ballot), and citing the conditions and ramifications of the 2010 Agreement as something to strike against.Would that be the same 2010 Agreement that you bullied an office into accepting Mr W? On a meaningless vote with less than half the office present?

I'm dreading whatever this new agreement will bring on to us on delivery. A few more quid maybe. But i didn't want to take industrial action this time, or last time over money. I want this harassment and culture of unrealistic workloads to change.

[chrisj]

It is nice of some of these blokes from MC to come along and support the cause... However, as stated they cannot simply understand the whole issues.

For starters, the idea that a local Union Rep has some sort of magic powers to influence managers and posties is just what someone from a MC will say. MC are generally larger places with Union reps and assistants and so on...

A lot of delivery offices are not that large, they are isolated and the agreement is open to all sorts of interpretations. Even the DOMs and their line managers are bullied and embarrassed by their bosses.

It is one thing to be positive about Union but it can anger people if you try to dismiss their frustrations and reality with some untoward language or remarks.

* For the record, I have done 12 hours on packets in a MC with just 30 minutes break (unpaid) as an Angard staff. We were only allowed 30 minutes break and it was unpaid apart from the toilet breaks (which is generous as it is not part of the day's work as for those in delivery). And I can tell you it was hard but still easy and there were blokes and girls especially from the eastern bloc that were doing 12 hours at the MC and other jobs like cleaning or hotel work.

[Stella102]

the mail centre staff have it too good, custy overtime no outdoor elements to deal with and meal breaks are plentiful.

lets screw over posties !!

i for one am just about ready to knock the union on the head unless we strike.

[Ahebban]

And if there was no union do you think Royal Mail will wait until the workforce re-organises or aligns itself with another union. Our jobs, terms, conditions etc, etc would be trashed long before then.

It is all very well being p*ssed off with the CWU (or any union for that matter) but it is those union members who are left that will be fighting for their jobs etc - as well as yours.

Every day I hear the moaners in my office (CWU members and non-union staff alike) aiming their criticism at CWU, but I don't see them in any hurry to contact moya and settle on Royal Mail's terms either.

You are not going to change anything within the CWU from outside. If you are not happy with the leadership of the CWU then make preparations to challenge the leadership come the next elections. Just observing here on RMC there appear to be enough moaners to choose a leader and make a direct challenge worthwhile. Although more likely not as none of them would want the responsibility that goes with the job or be the target for the next generation of moaners.

As the topic title says .. let's hold our nerve, grow up, let's wait until we know the detail before we start throwing toys out of the pram!

Rant over!