A worrying thought

[stephen500]

Now here is the tricky part. In a way our union has a strong hand, it is Christmas. However if an agreement is reached, I am guessing that it would take about a week to organise the ballot of the membership.
Then Allowing 19 days for the ballot to take place takes us to the 23rd Dec.
So if it is a good agreement and we vote yes, fine. However if the membership reject the agreement, we will have a problem.
Christmas will be over, our trump card will have been played and Royal Mail will be in a stronger position to withstand strikes in Jan 14.
Our position may then crumble and we may be left with little.
But let's be positive. We have a week to get a really good agreement, which we must get, because of what I have already said.
Our problem is RM will also know our position will start to crumble the nearer we get to having to ballot past right up to Christmas or just beyond.
We need to play a smart hand. But not over play it and get caught with a busted flush.
So it's an agreement by the 27th or immediate industrial action on the 4th Dec, which to have max impact would need to be two days per week.
Ideally I want an agreement, but it's either that or as said immediate IA.

[stephen500]

extra thought!
It's just that some one pointed out the ballot would take us either right up to Christmas or just beyond. i suppose it hinges on how strong our position would be post Christmas if we rejected the agreement. It prob wouldn't happen. I have never known in 36 years the membership to reject a recommendation for a "yes" vote. So if it comes to a vote and the Pec recommend "yes". I expect it would get through. But a nightmare scenario came into our head, that if rejected how strong would be our position. i suppose one thing RM must know, is that the members prob will take the lead of our leadership. so that does make our position much stronger

[Hitcher]

It'll get a yes vote anyway.

[wandle]

extra thought!
It's just that some one pointed out the ballot would take us either right up to Christmas or just beyond

That was me

It'll get a yes vote anyway.

Almost certainly, if the backpay we are due is included in the deal. By the time it's ballotted, votes are counted, and it finally goes into our pay, it'll be almost nine months worth of backpay. Even at only say, £10/week, that's £390. If Moya's previous £300 'bribe' is also part of the offer, then the short-term money-grabbers will come out in droves to accept a deal that whacks nearly £700 into their Christmas-week pay (in addition to the £200 Xmas bonus that is already going to be paid that week) !!!!
The union has made returning a No vote a non-starter, because we won't legally be able to strike until Christmas Day, or later anyway

[Martin Walsh]

Stephen the way forward was rejected by the membership after a yes recommendation from the PEC.

Now if there is an agreement , then the aim will be for a ballot and if at all possible for any back pay etc to be paid prior to xmas.

The important thing is to get the right agreement. This is a very complex agreement and the added issues of being the first legally binding agreement is adding to the complex issues.

The issues are not insurmountable and progress has been made.

[The_Wax_Man]

Yes dingo, fully agree with that. However as each day/week passes things are slipping by. - This should have been done through August/Sep when dates were originally mentioned.

The CWU slipped weeks by in the initial basis and here we are slipping weeks by at the back end - a total of circa 6 weeks slippage from the original fist slam dates on the table.

2 weeks ago, diary's were 'being cleared' to resolve this issue and oh, now another 7 days are needed as the correct people were not around the table. ?

I'm all for a decent agreement for all but you can see why the masses are starting to wane over this.

What once was a 'lets stand up and fight' is becoming more of a drag on many, - many I work with are more interested about the weekend packet O/T at the moment than anything else.

I believe that RM has played CWU very well. And I sincerely hope a good agreement all round can be done, put on the table and signed/sealed/paid before Christmas so that everyone can put this to bed, move on with their lives and start 2014 with fresh eyes and good intentions.

I really hope it's a good un otherwise people stress is going to increase.

[biscuit1957]

We should have walked the very 1st time,the leadership has taken us for a ride,we have not got what we wanted we have talked and still not got what we wanted,why are we still at work?

[Martin Walsh]

We should have walked the very 1st time,the leadership has taken us for a ride,we have not got what we wanted we have talked and still not got what we wanted,why are we still at work?

CWU HQs have not taken you or the membership for granted thats a fact. What the CWU have always stated that the aim is to get an agreement. With that in mind the cwu have to take a judgement call on wether more was to be gained from taking strike action or there was enough progress made to allow extra talks.

Now everyone on here seems to be ready to go over the top and its is very easy to talk big but the reality that the CWU know every Branch"s ballot result and some were not great including your own Branch South West no 7.

Now lets be clear we want a deal , we want the best deal and the majority of members would be willing to wait an extra 7 days to know if there is a strike. I know every Branch's results and whilst the union achieve an average yes vote of 78% a number of Branch's were in the high 90s and 80s and therefore a number of Branch"s were in the low 70s and 60s.

If the CWU call a strike in 7 days time , I betting a lot on here will start saying its too late and therefore will argue not to support it.

Lets just wait and see. You never know you may be pleasantly surprised.

[pants123]

that be nice Dingo, back pay paid before Xmas...

[adb2aber]

It'll get a yes vote anyway.

Almost certainly, if the backpay we are due is included in the deal. By the time it's ballotted, votes are counted, and it finally goes into our pay, it'll be almost nine months worth of backpay. Even at only say, £10/week, that's £390. If Moya's previous £300 'bribe' is also part of the offer, then the short-term money-grabbers will come out in droves to accept a deal that whacks nearly £700 into their Christmas-week pay (in addition to the £200 Xmas bonus that is already going to be paid that week) !!!!
The union has made returning a No vote a non-starter, because we won't legally be able to strike until Christmas Day, or later anyway

Actually, a strike round then would have the strongest support in history. 27th Dec out on strike? Have a Xmas long weekend of 5 days including the bank holidays? Why thank you. No-one will be in. No-one.

Dingo, are the vote results by branch available?

[Judgee]

Dingo, why did they have to put the strike date back? Why could they not leave it as it was and carry on negotiating right up until strike day? Surely this would have put the RM under more pressure to get things settled?

[Martin Walsh]

Judgee yes that could have been a tactic but what if Royal Mail said that they could not afford the new offer on pay if the union served notice as they would lose a number of contracts and therefore revenue.

Now the CWU had made progress and the one issue where progress has not been made is on resource to demand on deliveries. There seems be a belief that all the delivery issues have not moved on , well that is not true , its always been accepted that the longer vision for deliveries would be negotiated over a period of time. The key issue where progress has not been made is on resourcing to workload/ absorption.

[mandelsons_toenail]

Explain to me resourcing to workload dingo, simply.

What do Royal Mail want,

[fishtank]

Now the CWU had made progress and the one issue where progress has not been made is on resource to demand on deliveries..

Resourcing to Workload requires a structured workplan and managers capable of operating within those constraints.I honestly don't think Royal Mail can do that..
How many offices even have a workplan now? In my experience most offices look like the first day of the January sales with managers standing in the middle of the floor looking for fires to put out.
Managers work to targets on lapsing/absorption that are based on workload and the forecasting tools but because of the inefficiency of the original workplan they can't meet those targets through genuine efficiency.
That is when they resort to other measures....

[Lincox]

I would imagine what they want is extended banking of hours, so that all time made during the Summer months is added up and utilised during these few months of pressure during Autumn and early Winter. Sounds simple, but just imagine being forced to work a 10 hour day that includes 6-7 hours delivery. This was mentioned in the BT2010 Agreement and was subject to future discussions but if I recall were never carried forward, probably because they would breach employment regulations.