One day to go then...

[BingBong]

One day before RM have to come up with a deal. Fully expecting nothing to be agreed but union to give them more time again! They should just cut talks off if nothing is agreed and strike and then force RMs hand because I can see RM having sneaky plans already up their sleeve!

[makingsounds]

Delivery issues is the problematic area, lapsing-absorption-resourcing to workload and not to budget etc. My belief is that the talks will be extended

[BingBong]

Delivery issues is the problematic area, lapsing-absorption-resourcing to workload and not to budget etc. My belief is that the talks will be extended

they should get RM by the scruff of the neck. all this buying time rubbish will go against us.

[viking1488]

Delivery issues is the problematic area, lapsing-absorption-resourcing to workload and not to budget etc. My belief is that the talks will be extended

don't think it would be possible to extend the talks or they would have to re-ballot for IA unless the union have no intention of calling any IA

[BingBong]

Delivery issues is the problematic area, lapsing-absorption-resourcing to workload and not to budget etc. My belief is that the talks will be extended

don't think it would be possible to extend the talks or they would have to re-ballot for IA unless the union have no intention of calling any IA

if we have to ballot again then thats a joke.

[Martin Walsh]

no you can get another extension.

[OnAFlyer]

What about the possibility of making deliveries a separate issue, continuing talks about that and putting the rest of the agreement out to vote, is that at all likely?

[fishtank]

no you can get another extension.

There is little to gain from another extension.
We're running out of time and options.
Where's the second ballot on action short of a strike and the now infamous boycott?
Not having a go at you but this is starting to look embarrassing and reps are getting tired of having to tell members...well nothing really..

[BernardBresslaw]

What is the point of yet another extension? If no progress has been made in the last 10 days, I can't see how extending it any further will help. Just get on the gates already!

[gb93]

no you can get another extension.

So reading between the lines. I guess whats going to happen.

[stephen500]

let's get this straight...and I know there are postperson's just waiting to sell out the delivery men (I work in a mail centre)

The union, our union has said in LTB 733:

"The individual elements outlined above will only be deemed agreed when everything is agreed"

So their will be no sell out of delivery postman.

So no they will not be shunted off to a "separate agreement" to be hung out to dry, so other members don't have to lose a few days pay.

How would some of our members have done in "The General Strike".
I feel sorry for those, for whom money is tight, worrying about paying there bills over a strike period.

But in general that will not be Mail Centre posties...lot's earn over thousands more then delivery postman including myself.

Some of these delivery postman can only dream of what, we in Mail centres earn,

If members in Mail centres have not saved for a strike, they have been foolish.

I have spent the last three months saving money.

Delivery postperson's pay is inferior to us in the Mail Centre, their pension are worse because of this and they work a lot harder then us.

Stop bleating about maybe losing a days pay, think of the long term for both others and yourself.

I make one proviso, the union must not be strung along till the other side of Christmas.

I don't gamble, but I understand at present we hold what is called a "Royal flush", because of Christmas, but after we will be left with "a pair"

So let's have a complete agreement, as stated in the LTB.
Let's make it a good one, but if for one moment the union thinks RM is stringing along to get to the other side of Christmas, then we must call their bluff and go for Industrial action.

Personally I want an agreement, covering all of us, with 5 years protection, a good pay deal, pensions protected and postmen and women in MC and deliveries protected against un-realistic work loads.

[Martin Walsh]

Look regardless of my opinion and I have said I would have served notice I can understand both positions.

1st option serve the 7 days and put a gun against their heads. Thats the plus point but the downside is that Amazon will move to other providers as will other firms and parcelforce will face ruin.

2nd Option progress has been made on most issues other than the workplace issues, ensure more senior management get involved and try and get progress made and we cant then the action is then taken on the 27th November.

Its all about a judgement call. We want a deal and if we have to take strike action then fine but their is a balance between the two positions and dont under estimate what other providers will do.

[stephen500]

Look regardless of my opinion and I have said I would have served notice I can understand both positions.

1st option serve the 7 days and put a gun against their heads. Thats the plus point but the downside is that Amazon will move to other providers as will other firms and parcelforce will face ruin.

2nd Option progress has been made on most issues other than the workplace issues, ensure more senior management get involved and try and get progress made and we cant then the action is then taken on the 27th November.

Its all about a judgement call. We want a deal and if we have to take strike action then fine but their is a balance between the two positions and dont under estimate what other providers will do.

I personally think in a couple of weeks time, whatever arrangements Royal Mail make will not be enough.
If they brought in thousands of extra casuals they could not cope.
Rm, as far as I know, make a huge percentage of their profits at Christmas.
So it's a huge gamble for them and for us.
Get it wrong and it could cost Royal Mail millions and thousands of jobs for us.
If we don't get agreement, then it may also cost us in pay, protections and pensions.
So I really want an agreement, but not at the cost of "some" members.
Lock the lot in a room till they come to a GOOD agreement, that covers everyone
We have a strong hand at present, but as said must not go beyond Christmas.

I think of it as we have two chambers to choose from in our six shooter, one has a bullet in!

[welshy808]

let's get this straight...and I know there are postperson's just waiting to sell out the delivery men (I work in a mail centre)

The union, our union has said in LTB 733:

"The individual elements outlined above will only be deemed agreed when everything is agreed"

So their will be no sell out of delivery postman.

So no they will not be shunted off to a "separate agreement" to be hung out to dry, so other members don't have to lose a few days pay.

How would some of our members have done in "The General Strike".
I feel sorry for those, for whom money is tight, worrying about paying there bills over a strike period.

But in general that will not be Mail Centre posties...lot's earn over thousands more then delivery postman including myself.

Some of these delivery postman can only dream of what, we in Mail centres earn,

If members in Mail centres have not saved for a strike, they have been foolish.

I have spent the last three months saving money.

Delivery postperson's pay is inferior to us in the Mail Centre, their pension are worse because of this and they work a lot harder then us.

Stop bleating about maybe losing a days pay, think of the long term for both others and yourself.

I make one proviso, the union must not be strung along till the other side of Christmas.

I don't gamble, but I understand at present we hold what is called a "Royal flush", because of Christmas, but after we will be left with "a pair"

So let's have a complete agreement, as stated in the LTB.
Let's make it a good one, but if for one moment the union thinks RM is stringing along to get to the other side of Christmas, then we must call their bluff and go for Industrial action.

Personally I want an agreement, covering all of us, with 5 years protection, a good pay deal, pensions protected and postmen and women in MC and deliveries protected against un-realistic work loads.

Well said.

Dingo, are the negotiators fully aware of the workload issues on delivery members. I fully understand that as fulltime reps they wouldn't have been on delivery under Methods. But have they been to visit DM Offices that have had to put up with these unachievable workloads, or witnessed the bully boy tactics used to "Persuade" staff to complete deliveries and absorb extra, just to plump up a Managers bonus .

Another extension is pointless, and will just drive a wedge between the membership and the top table. Whatever you think of Business Transformation most ordinary delivery members are still angry about it. Imagine the anger if they feel they've been sold down the river again. I think there were a lot of good things in 2010 but week wording has proved to be the bane of delivery members. Putting aside the obvious D2D issues that are now dead an buried, Bob Gibson needs to strengthen the wording to stop the loopholes that Management use to batter an already overworked and downtrodden workforce.

[Martin Walsh]

Look just because you have not done a delivery for some time does not mean you dont know the problems. Remember our senior reps visit loads of offices and get reports. Its Royal Mail who are refusing to recognise there is a problem and believe that there is a lot more further savings to have from deliveries especially from resourcing to demand /absorption. Equally that agreement BT 2010 they want to remove all the safeguards ie start times , attendance patterns etc.

Does a football manager have to play in the football team to manage ? Does a General in the army have to serve on the front line ?