Grangemouth.............what if?

[Zootsuit]

800 people at Grangemouth don't have a job anymore. Not just poorer terms and conditions. No jobs.

Their Union refused to sign a no strike deal, threatened to strike and ........................... 800 people don't have jobs anymore.

What if ......................... Royal Mail plc sticks to its guns and strike action takes the current deal off the table?
What if ......................... Royal Mail has had enough and, taking into account that the number of union members that actually voted yes to support strike action is less than 50% and, in the knowledge that the stomach for a serious fight among the majority of members is weak decides that it's worth the risk to let strike action go on?
What if ......................... Royal Mail decides that with the 3 year deal in the bin they can start to change terms and conditions as soon as they like?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see terms and conditions guaranteed for as long as possible and I will be supporting whatever decisions are made by the Union Executive but the writing is on the wall and Grangemouth is writ large.

I hope a compromise can be made, that the CWU accepts a face saving new deal and that Royal Mail is not prepared to take a massive risk to finally put 'troublesome industrial relations' to a messy end. Thatcher did it to the miners. Ineos have done it to the Grangemouth petro chemical workers (although some might argue that the respective unions eventually did it to their members).

What if it's us next ............................ ?

Enjoy your day off on Nov 4th, it might be the first of many without pay. Once TNT have trained up a new force of unskilled workers you won't be too hard to replace!

[houseoflords]

Very true, "Do as we say or you wont have a job" nice to know were going back to Victorian times once again.

[fishtank]

Grangemouth was a manufactured dispute.
After years of deliberate under-investment the site needed a massive overhaul apparently costing at least £300 million.
The owners didn't fancy that so they allegedly screwed the books to make it appear loss making,picked a fight with the union by intimidating trade union officials and then when that didn't work they upped the stakes and attempted to change members terms and conditions outside agreed process knowing this would kick off a strike.
When the union tried to negotiate the owner refused to meet in person instead trying to negotiate by phone from his brand new £130 million yacht,complete with 21 staff.
When ACAS were involved the owners walked out in a huff and invoked a cold shutdown of the plant.On wednesday when the plant was due to reopen they closed it for good.

The plan was to either force the government to subsidise the overhaul or close the plant entirely,nothing the members could have done would have changed that scenario.

It is nothing like the situation we are facing.

[janitor]

We have seen this all before management say, take a pay cut and reduced pension rights or we have to close, so workers y
take the pay cut and reduced pension and it closes any way.

[Zootsuit]

Thanks FT, but I guess I wasn't comparing the situation we are in directly with the Grangemouth one, Royal Mail is hardly going to be shut down.
What I am thinking is what has happened to Unite might lead other employers to push unions further (as I sit here it is being reported that Unite are going back to apparently try and accept the original terms in an effort to recover the situation).

What you say is interesting if true, but what if Unite HAD accepted what the company was proposing? Do you think they still would have found a way to shut it down?

What if ....... Royal Mail doesn't compromise?

[cyclemech1]

Grangemouth was a manufactured dispute.
After years of deliberate under-investment the site needed a massive overhaul apparently costing at least £300 million.
The owners didn't fancy that so they allegedly screwed the books to make it appear loss making,picked a fight with the union by intimidating trade union officials and then when that didn't work they upped the stakes and attempted to change members terms and conditions outside agreed process knowing this would kick off a strike.
When the union tried to negotiate the owner refused to meet in person instead trying to negotiate by phone from his brand new £130 million yacht,complete with 21 staff.
When ACAS were involved the owners walked out in a huff and invoked a cold shutdown of the plant.On wednesday when the plant was due to reopen they closed it for good.

The plan was to either force the government to subsidise the overhaul or close the plant entirely,nothing the members could have done would have changed that scenario.

It is nothing like the situation we are facing.

I dunno FT, theres quite a bit there that smacks of RM.

[fishtank]

grangemouth.jpg

[FinishOnTime]

I've posted on here before wondering now that privatisation is done and dusted, why Royal Mail wouldn't just walk away from the negotiating table, and impose a take it or leave it settlement. I've also asked the question at a gate meeting. To be fair, I've never had an answer that re-assures me.

I've heard it said as well that the Government, and Cable in particular, could do with a bit of a long running dispute to get that pesky share price down, and head off allegations that they flogged it off cheaply.

[Ahebban]

Royal Mail most probably will not commit to any deal until they assess what happens on Monday 4 November. Any staff crossing picket lines gives comfort to RM to hold a hard line. Have your gate meetings, speak to individuals, man the picket lines and the likelihood of RM coming to the workforce with a 'take it or leave it deal' diminishes.

[chrisj]

Sorry, no amount of manning the picket is going to prevent more than 30% turning up to work. The simple fact is that a large number of employees are happy with the deal on offer from RM and can we really trust any dinosaur Union from leading us astray?

The strike is actually going to be the undoing of the Union. They better deal now and save their strength and membership for another day.

I can just see a lot of union members, RM employees, politicians and most significantly the members of the public asking why are they doing this? Are they mad? or just greedy?

Manning a picket and trying to intimidate is so 20th century

[dvbuk55]

Grangemouth employed less than 1 large mail centre, RM has over 150,000 employees with a daily regime to follow so what if........ we stopped being ridiculous.

[flaminmoses]

what if you make it too easy for them now?
3 years will fly by and any reduction in profits will be the start of the eating into your terms and conditions....nailed on.

[NWpostie]

I guarantee that Grangemouth will be shut down eventually in spite of any deal in 1 or 2 years time, they will probably engineer another dispute and shut it down.

[Ahebban]

Picketing is no longer about intimidation .. the law has seen to that.

Picket lines are more about a visible showing of solidarity with your fellow worker - if that is 'so 20th century' it feels good to me.

Yes, people will no doubt cross the picket line at my DO, but I don't see or hear of any of them writing to Moya accepting her agreement as it stands. Is that because the CWU might actually negotiate a better deal with RM and they wouldn't want to miss out?

Much better that someone else makes the sacrifice of losing a day's pay in pursuit of a claim that is fair and reasonable for all concerned - if that is '21st Century' morality I fear for the future of us all.

[clashcityrocker]

Sorry, no amount of manning the picket is going to prevent more than 30% turning up to work.

And where did you pull the statistic of 30% from?
Did MORI do a poll? Did you make it up? Or did you pull it out of your arsehole?