ANNOUNCEMENT : ALL OF ROYAL MAIL'S EMPLOYMENT POLICIES (AGREEMENTS) AT A GLANCE (Updated 2021)... HERE

ANNOUNCEMENT : PLEASE BE AWARE WE ARE NOT ON FACEBOOK AT ALL!

To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by fishtank »

As most of you are aware TNT Post have an ongoing end to end operation in London and are about to start another in Manchester.
Some people think that Ofcom will ride to the rescue forcing TNT to deliver to every address making the whole thing uneconomic and TNT will disappear sharpish.
This will not happen.

It won't happen because the economics of setting up a rival USO would be unmanageable for any company and this would be deemed anti-competitive under relevant EU Directives and the only available alternative would be the right to establish a compensation fund where provision of the USO entails a net cost and represents an unfair financial burden on the Universal Service Provider.


Royal Mail staff should be very aware of the arguments the likes of TNT Post will put forward against paying into a compensation fund.

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binari ... es/TNT.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As to matters which are to be considered to be within Royal Mail’s control (paragraph 6.28), it should be expressly stated that wages and other employment conditions are within Royal Mail’s control. It gives cause for concern that OFCOM will undertake work to identify a reasonable rate of efficiency improvement. If set too low, this can result in competitors not investing (due to risk of regulatory restraints) and may become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

In principle we do not accept the presumption that Royal Mail’s costs are relatively fixed. The majority of cost is labour and so is, inherently, a variable cost. Royal Mail needs to be exposed to competition both operationally and on employment terms in order to produce the most efficient and flexible cost structure.

The current business model would represent an inappropriate baseline if it does not look forward and assume implementation of other employment models, more akin to those of its competitors. A changed Royal Mail business model could lead to another number staff and could lead to leaner (i.e. cheaper) labour costs and conditions.

Finally, in assessing the effect of delivery competition on the provision of the USO, potential changes to the USO must also be taken into account. If the extent of the USO is set at a level which is wider than it needs to be, from a consumer or EU legislation perspective, there can be no defensible argument that competition should be restrained in order to justify such additional and non-essential obligations.

These obligations would exist, ultimately, because of a political decision and not the assessment of the independent regulator. The guidance should make clear how any permitted reduction in the USO will be taken into account. It should not be limited to changes which are proposed (as stated in paragraph 6.63) as these may countenance a service which goes beyond the minimum needs of users and, thus, place an undue burden on Royal Mail and, thereby, its competitors
This is the reality of the situation.
TNT want both the USO and our terms and conditions reduced before they would consider making any contribution to the USO,Ofcom,Royal Mail and a Tory government are unlikely to put up much of a fight.

The only people left to fight for both are us and our union.
Strike on the 4th of November or roll over and accept the TNT model,It's that simple.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Surreypostie
Posts: 999
Joined: 04 Aug 2013, 21:05
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by Surreypostie »

If and its a big if the union pull off the boycott, TNT will crap themselves, all those contracts they are unable to fulfil could cost them dearly. Ultimately, the compensation RM may have to pay could help our cause hugely.
Godric
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 855
Joined: 17 Oct 2009, 12:08
Gender: Male
Location: The Kingdom of Alba

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by Godric »

Fishtank this is make or break for the union and Royal Mail ..... Royal Mail are either blind or in on it if they can't see the danger Tnt poses to the business
"Vi har haft århundraden av kärlek och tillit till varandra."
Shaman Mao
Posts: 133
Joined: 03 Jan 2013, 22:46
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by Shaman Mao »

An interesting and scary read Mr Fishtank. Unfortunately at least 50% of my workmates don't think that they'll ever become a "leaner" workforce. They'll learn... too late.
banner18
Posts: 636
Joined: 05 Sep 2008, 19:10
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by banner18 »

We should strike when our terms and conditions actually come under threat. Seen as they aren't, yet, what is the point of a strike?
fishtank
Posts: 19732
Joined: 28 Sep 2007, 17:22
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by fishtank »

banner18 wrote:We should strike when our terms and conditions actually come under threat. Seen as they aren't, yet, what is the point of a strike?
Do you think RM will send out a Courier Newsflash when they decide to erode your terms and conditions?
It will be done slowly affecting small groups at a time over the next 5 years,you won't do f**k all about it because it only affects them over there or those guys in that function and by the time you realise you've been screwed RM will be lying back having a post coital cigarette.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
Dorset Plodder
Posts: 4351
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 20:05
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by Dorset Plodder »

Well I won't bother watching the Horror Film tonight....That letter was frightening enough! :sad: FFS what is it going to take to stop these thieving money grabbing bastards from dragging everyone down to the lowest level of employment?

Obviously as FT has pointed out...Us & The CWU! I wonder if the RM big wigs are actually bothered about their own workforce getting shafted. After all it would save "Them" paying out higher wages. Heaven forbid a few Directors lost their jobs they'd probably just walk into another 100K one. What hope for Posties having to drag themselves back up the wages ladder? :arrrghhh
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
wannabeek
Posts: 996
Joined: 27 Apr 2011, 00:49
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by wannabeek »

agreed with fishtank. and don't forget the 'industrial stability' clause in their offer - you won't have the option of striking if you later decide it might be necessary.
barbario
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
Posts: 411
Joined: 31 Jul 2007, 11:28

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by barbario »

By then it would probably be too late to do anything about it.
Dorset Plodder
Posts: 4351
Joined: 29 Apr 2009, 20:05
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by Dorset Plodder »

banner18 wrote:We should strike when our terms and conditions actually come under threat. Seen as they aren't, yet, what is the point of a strike?
Whenever I hear this sort of argument it reminds me of this:

"Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist,
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me"!

Martin Nieomoller

:hmmmm
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
banner18
Posts: 636
Joined: 05 Sep 2008, 19:10
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by banner18 »

fishtank wrote:
banner18 wrote:We should strike when our terms and conditions actually come under threat. Seen as they aren't, yet, what is the point of a strike?
Do you think RM will send out a Courier Newsflash when they decide to erode your terms and conditions?
It will be done slowly affecting small groups at a time over the next 5 years,you won't do f**k all about it because it only affects them over there or those guys in that function and by the time you realise you've been screwed RM will be lying back having a post coital cigarette.

I'm not sure I agree, apart from new starters being put on different contracts. They cannot alter sick pay, holiday entitlements or the pay of small groups. If so though, what will stop them from doing it anyhow? A hundred year guarantee on t&c's? We only got a year before t&c's were negotiated when under public ownership.
banner18
Posts: 636
Joined: 05 Sep 2008, 19:10
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by banner18 »

Dorset Plodder wrote:
banner18 wrote:We should strike when our terms and conditions actually come under threat. Seen as they aren't, yet, what is the point of a strike?
Whenever I hear this sort of argument it reminds me of this:

"Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist,
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me"!

Martin Nieomoller

:hmmmm
Tell me who they have come for in the workforce then? The quote is great if it applies to our case but it hasn't been demonstrated.
Lincox
EX ROYAL MAIL
Posts: 3485
Joined: 09 Jan 2008, 18:07
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by Lincox »

Banner, you are so naive, I just hope you are not in the first wave.
dmfco
Posts: 25
Joined: 07 Aug 2009, 03:54
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by dmfco »

banner18 wrote:
Dorset Plodder wrote:
banner18 wrote:We should strike when our terms and conditions actually come under threat. Seen as they aren't, yet, what is the point of a strike?
Whenever I hear this sort of argument it reminds me of this:

"Then they came for the Trade Unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a Trade Unionist,
Then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me"!

Martin Nieomoller

:hmmmm
Tell me who they have come for in the workforce then? The quote is great if it applies to our case but it hasn't been demonstrated.
They will bring a second tier work force (third tier if you consider part timers) on worse conditions.

Then they will argue you cost too much and are not needed 39 hours a week so your part time.

Then they will tell us sick pay is being abused and only genuine sickness is after 4 days so the first 3 days are being stopped.

Then we will hear that running the fleet of Royal Mail vans is expensive so we will have to rent them but don't worry we can then take the home and pay petrol like our competitors.

All this can happen with a short notice period, even changing your pay!

As for who in the workplace have they come for:

25 hours doing 39+ hours a week with no chance of being made up.
Mail centres closing with 1000's losing jobs.
Workloads becoming impossible.
Bullying in deliveries, processing, distribution and even customer services. (I am sure I am missing some sections as well)

The quote doesn't work exactly but that doesn't detract from the fact that unless we stand side by side we will not stop it.

So when do we fight now or when we are broken, beaten and on a race to the bottom? We have taken so much crap to turn this company around and we have lost so many of our friends and colleagues in the process. If we unite now and strike before the changes we will have the best chance of saving the job and the service.

This is OUR union and OUR Royal Mail! We have a strong position now lets stand strong and win what we all deserve!

Rant Over
banner18
Posts: 636
Joined: 05 Sep 2008, 19:10
Gender: Male

Re: To those that don't believe our terms are under threat

Post by banner18 »

Lincox wrote:Banner, you are so naive, I just hope you are not in the first wave.

Ad hominems tell me nothing. Speak to me, not at me. I'm asking for substance. For instance, they want to reduce our holiday entitlements or put us on statutory sick pay. Something we can discuss. What part of the terms and conditions are they attacking?
What guarantees are we looking for the future regarding t&c's? A five year deal?