Can anyone tell me if the indoor work tool is agreed with cwu
To be used for individual performance ?
I'm near sure I read on here somewhere that it wasn't
Would it be possible for it to be agreed locally
We are being told it is
So all the testing and projected times we should be leaving building is being bandied about again
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I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
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clashcityrocker
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
It has been brought to the attention of the Outdoor Dept that Royal Mail managers are attempting to use an unagreed performance tool to measure the performance of individuals. They are stating that this tool/approach has been agreed with the CWU which is completely untrue.
Our understanding is that they are extracting information from the IWT (which is an agreed tool) to determine what the throughputs (IPS/Prep) should be on an individual basis. However the IWT is a tool to measure office/unit performance not individual performance and there has been no discussion with the CWU at national level at all on this unagreed approach. The only agreement that exists between the CWU and Royal Mail on the subject of individual performance is the Individual Performance Standards Agreement and no other.
Branches and Representatives should make it clear to managers that we will not participate in the unagreed process and register disagreement where necessary.
This should then be raised in the first instance with CWU Divisional representatives ASAP and subsequently with the Outdoor Dept if the problem is not resolved at Divisional level.
This will be raised at a meeting with Royal Mail on Monday 25th July and the outcome reported in due course.
Our understanding is that they are extracting information from the IWT (which is an agreed tool) to determine what the throughputs (IPS/Prep) should be on an individual basis. However the IWT is a tool to measure office/unit performance not individual performance and there has been no discussion with the CWU at national level at all on this unagreed approach. The only agreement that exists between the CWU and Royal Mail on the subject of individual performance is the Individual Performance Standards Agreement and no other.
Branches and Representatives should make it clear to managers that we will not participate in the unagreed process and register disagreement where necessary.
This should then be raised in the first instance with CWU Divisional representatives ASAP and subsequently with the Outdoor Dept if the problem is not resolved at Divisional level.
This will be raised at a meeting with Royal Mail on Monday 25th July and the outcome reported in due course.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
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Lincox
- EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
This will be raised at a meeting with Royal Mail on Monday 25th July and the outcome reported in due course.
When is DUE COURSE, or has DUE COURSE already been and gone?
When is DUE COURSE, or has DUE COURSE already been and gone?
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wf
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
Thanks clash .
I wonder what the outcome of that meeting was
We have had this all before ,our rep knows about it
But then again our office seems pretty unique sometimes
I wonder what the outcome of that meeting was
We have had this all before ,our rep knows about it
But then again our office seems pretty unique sometimes
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clashcityrocker
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
From: Bobby Gibson [mailto:BGibson@cwu.org]
Billy
I spoke with Rob Jenson this morning regarding Pareto following his visit to N. Ireland. He confirmed that the only process to be used is the National Agreement - Individual Performance Standards (IPS) and this will be dealt with sensitively. There will be no displaying of any information relating to any individuals performance. If performance issues are identified in line with IPS then this will dealt with through counselling and where necessary training. We also discussed IWT and he confirmed that the IWT is an office based performance measure and not a measure of individual performance.
I anticipate that this should resolve the problem. However if this proves not to be the case then let me know ASAP and also advise our members not to participate.
Regards
Bob Gibson CWU Assistant Secretary - Outdoor
Billy
I spoke with Rob Jenson this morning regarding Pareto following his visit to N. Ireland. He confirmed that the only process to be used is the National Agreement - Individual Performance Standards (IPS) and this will be dealt with sensitively. There will be no displaying of any information relating to any individuals performance. If performance issues are identified in line with IPS then this will dealt with through counselling and where necessary training. We also discussed IWT and he confirmed that the IWT is an office based performance measure and not a measure of individual performance.
I anticipate that this should resolve the problem. However if this proves not to be the case then let me know ASAP and also advise our members not to participate.
Regards
Bob Gibson CWU Assistant Secretary - Outdoor
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
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lovehunter
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
Is there any way to arrange a copy of that letter be sent to the reps in Belfast who think the managers are always right
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POSTMAN
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
See the stickie in 'this' forum,copy/paste it,it has dates in it as well...
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 42&t=37811" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 42&t=37811" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I Wrote-During Covid-Which is still relevant now
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
It's good to get these types of threads, the ridiculous my manager said bollox, so we can reassure ourselves that while the world is falling apart, Royal Mail managers are still being the low-life C***S they have always been.
My BFF Clash
The daily grind of having to argue your case with an intellectual pigmy of a line manager is physically and emotionally draining.
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Dorset Plodder
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
I've seen offices where the number of letters, flats & packets has been posted on the notice board...saying an individual should be able to sort this many.........in a minute. I take it these figures are taken from the IWT which you say is an indication of an OFFICES performance? 
I'll check this out and pass it on.
I take it the only check on an Individual's performance is still the 60 seconds sort test?
I'll check this out and pass it on. I take it the only check on an Individual's performance is still the 60 seconds sort test?
Last edited by Dorset Plodder on 17 Sep 2013, 21:26, edited 1 time in total.
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
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Glenno
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
CorrectDorset Plodder wrote:I've seen offices where the number of letters, flats & packets has been posted on the notice board...saying an individual should be able to sort this many.........in a minute. I take it these figures are taken from the IWT which you say is an idication of an OFFICES performance?
I take it the only check on an Individual's performance is still the 60 seconds sort test?
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Budfrog
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
Can't see any issue with posting overall targets for sorting letter/flats/packets on a noticeboard which should be calculated using national planning values.Dorset Plodder wrote:I've seen offices where the number of letters, flats & packets has been posted on the notice board...saying an individual should be able to sort this many.........in a minute.
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fishtank
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
Since the process management are using to calculate office throughputs, sorting rates and preparation times all assume...Budfrog wrote:Can't see any issue with posting overall targets for sorting letter/flats/packets on a noticeboard which should be calculated using national planning values.
1) A properly implemented and monitored workplan.
2) Robust,accurate traffic recording.
3) Fit for purpose sorting equipment.
4) The ability to achieve and maintain performance levels around 95-100BSI over the entire workplan.
I would say that posting overall targets for sorting letter/flats/packets on a noticeboard is in most cases a waste of paper and drawing pins.
Unless your plan is to demotivate your staff.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
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clashcityrocker
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
Usually what is displayed on noticeboards is the 1 minute test values.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
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Budfrog
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
Been done in Mail Centres for years either on noticeboards or sorting frames - some staff are interested, some are not, it's not done to intimidate just provide some background to the productivity/planningfishtank wrote:Since the process management are using to calculate office throughputs, sorting rates and preparation times all assume...Budfrog wrote:Can't see any issue with posting overall targets for sorting letter/flats/packets on a noticeboard which should be calculated using national planning values.
1) A properly implemented and monitored workplan.
2) Robust,accurate traffic recording.
3) Fit for purpose sorting equipment.
4) The ability to achieve and maintain performance levels around 95-100BSI over the entire workplan.
I would say that posting overall targets for sorting letter/flats/packets on a noticeboard is in most cases a waste of paper and drawing pins.
Unless your plan is to demotivate your staff.
measures that Royal Mail have in place.I take your points about having an agreed, workable workplan, robust traffic measurement systems and equipment that is fir for purpose as these are fundamental requirements for any office (no doubt WCM will sort all of this out
). As for performance levels I have long maintained a target of 75Bs and so quoting 95-100Bs is for most units and the staff that work their totally meaningless as they are not production workers on output related incentive payments.-
Dorset Plodder
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
The problem arises Budfrog when on a particularly busy day a Postie says to the DOM, "It's really busy today we've got loads of mail to sort, I probably won't be able to complete on time"! 
The DOM then points at his notice board and says "There's X amount of you sorting, you should each be able to sort Y amount of flats/letters/packets and "The Traffic Figures" tell me it's not a busy day"!
Obviously as experienced Posties, with many years (up until now satisfactory) service we're not able to tell it's a bloody horrendous day. Despite the fact we're surrounded waist deep with trays of mail!
Yes you can refuse to lapse and you can cut off...BUT not everyone's got the backbone to do it and why has everything become such a balls ache? Everything's being thrown back at the Posties just not working fast enough or hard enough. FFS We were all doing this job OK for years until the goal posts started moving!
The DOM then points at his notice board and says "There's X amount of you sorting, you should each be able to sort Y amount of flats/letters/packets and "The Traffic Figures"
tell me it's not a busy day"! Obviously as experienced Posties, with many years (up until now satisfactory) service we're not able to tell it's a bloody horrendous day. Despite the fact we're surrounded waist deep with trays of mail!
Yes you can refuse to lapse and you can cut off...BUT not everyone's got the backbone to do it and why has everything become such a balls ache? Everything's being thrown back at the Posties just not working fast enough or hard enough. FFS We were all doing this job OK for years until the goal posts started moving!
Like all Wage Slaves, he had two crosses to bear: The people he worked for and the people he worked with! (Stephen Vizinczey.)
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Budfrog
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Re: I.w.t is it agreed with cwu
I would say a DOM with these skills shouldn't be in the job, but then you already know thatDorset Plodder wrote:The problem arises Budfrog when on a particularly busy day a Postie says to the DOM, "It's really busy today we've got loads of mail to sort, I probably won't be able to complete on time"!
The DOM then points at his notice board and says "There's X amount of you sorting, you should each be able to sort Y amount of flats/letters/packets and "The Traffic Figures"
Obviously as experienced Posties, with many years (up until now satisfactory) service we're not able to tell it's a bloody horrendous day. Despite the fact we're surrounded waist deep with trays of mail!
Yes you can refuse to lapse and you can cut off...BUT not everyone's got the backbone to do it and why has everything become such a balls ache? Everything's being thrown back at the Posties just not working fast enough or hard enough. FFS We were all doing this job OK for years until the goal posts started moving!
