Terms & Conditions after privatisation ?

[human1]

How long for we are going to keep present employment Terms & Conditions after we go private?

[monkeymutha]

Depends on, us, the union.

[OnAFlyer]

Nobody knows, and anyone that claims different is scaremongering or lying.

T&C'S will probably change at some point, but IMO the 'minimum wage' claims made by a lot of people are complete bollocks. Nobody at BT, British Gas, British Rail etc ended up on minimum wage after privatisation.

Lets be honest here, massive cuts and savings have been going on in RM for years now, I can't see it being any different after a flotation, but I can see rurals losing out on daily deliveries within a few years and possibly the USO changing in urban areas as well.

All that will easily be managed by natural wastage though IMO, just as the 60/70,000 jobs that have already gone have been.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Won't take long for them to attack us though.

Agree monkeymutha, it will depend on us, the union.
And that's why fighting and striking now is important. If we don't fight, and just roll over and accept what they want, they view it, and us, as weak, and won't hesitate to screw us out of pay, T&C's, working conditions worsening to the point of drowning us.

[fishtank]

Nobody at BT, British Gas, British Rail etc ended up on minimum wage after privatisation.

Not many at BT,British Gas,British Rail etc were completely unskilled and could be replaced at a minute's notice.

If you think that we have the same inbuilt job security as a full trained BT or BG engineer or a train driver you're living in dreamland.

[wandle]

Nobody at BT, British Gas, British Rail etc ended up on minimum wage after privatisation.

Not many at BT,British Gas,British Rail etc were completely unskilled and could be replaced at a minute's notice.

If you think that we have the same inbuilt job security as a full trained BT or BG engineer or a train driver you're living in dreamland.

That's a little bit of an over-simplification. Look what happened in the past, when Royal Mail have brought in similarly 'unskilled' agency workers on deliveries, at Xmas.
Chaos! Undelivered mail, wrongly delivered mail.
New owners of the business know that one thing that would be guaranteed to provoke a strike ballot, would be any attempt to freeze or cut our basic pay. Even the most lilly-livered bods in my office would go out on that issue.

What will probably happen is what happened in the supermarket trade, when the laws on Sunday trading were relaxed, and USDAW opposed any attempt by Tesco etc to change people's terms and conditions and thus force them to work Sundays. The supermarkets just bided their time. Staff turnover in the retail sector is high; all they had to do was hire replacements for those who left, on different terms and conditions, with contracts that included Sunday working. If interviewees did not like those T&Cs, the job went to someone who would sign the contract of employment.

Similarly, I expect that as people retire from Royal Mail, the new owners will attempt to hire new recruits on contracts that have different (i.e. worse) pay and conditions than existing employees. If they try this, what will the CWU's position be? Call a strike ballot, to defend the T&Cs of new recruits? Will that get overwhelming support from the membership? You would think, on principle, we would all vote to go out. But in the real world, I suspect this would not necessarily be the case. Some people would not see the bigger picture, would refuse to lose money to benefit new and future employees.
So as the years roll by, a steadily increasing percentage of the workforce would be on the lower wages, as retirees are replaced by those on inferior terms and conditions.
At some point - several years from now, perhaps - the owners of the business would then attempt to 'harmonise wage levels' by slashing pay rates of those who were on the old terms and conditions. Would the ones who have had to endure other people getting paid more than them, for doing the same job, really vote to strike, to maintain the inequality of wages? Probably not. At that point, we are all fecked

[OnAFlyer]

Nobody at BT, British Gas, British Rail etc ended up on minimum wage after privatisation.

Not many at BT,British Gas,British Rail etc were completely unskilled and could be replaced at a minute's notice.

If you think that we have the same inbuilt job security as a full trained BT or BG engineer or a train driver you're living in dreamland.

Ah right, so that's why all the worry on here about being dropped to minimum wage, people actually realise the job is well paid for what it is - thats despite all the moaning about pay and most wanting above inflation rises.....

[Lincox]

As a very good friend of an ex BT worker when they were privatised, he took redundancy because BT started to ship out the best work to contractors, and the mundane jobs were left to the old workforce. This is typical of the way a privatised company can over a short period of time, piss off the existing hard working staff who have been on fair terms and conditions and gradually impose poorer terms. Royal Mail as a privatised company can very easily ship out D2D work to contractors, provide easy point of collection for packets/parcels, and where does that leave 115,000 delivery personnel. Does not take much imagination does it ON A FLYER.

[OnAFlyer]

As a very good friend of an ex BT worker when they were privatised, he took redundancy because BT started to ship out the best work to contractors, and the mundane jobs were left to the old workforce. This is typical of the way a privatised company can over a short period of time, piss off the existing hard working staff who have been on fair terms and conditions and gradually impose poorer terms. Royal Mail as a privatised company can very easily ship out D2D work to contractors, provide easy point of collection for packets/parcels, and where does that leave 115,000 delivery personnel. Does not take much imagination does it ON A FLYER.

That's all you've got though isn't it, imagination and its, buts and maybes. What were the best jobs in BT btw, cos I still see BT engineers all over the place doing allsorts.

As for the unskilled comments, have a look and see what train conductors earn. No skill whatsoever, privatised industry and they earn circa £25k plus commission, plus final salary pension, plus shorter working week than us.

[Lincox]

Incorrect.
Why have Royal Mail guaranteed in their recent pay offer to not outsource work during the period of the offer. which is only a 3 year span. It is obvious to anyone that that is their intention as soon as they have pushed through privitisation. Anyone who has belief in a Royal Mail guarantee is living in the clouds.
As for BT Engineers, yes there is an employed workforce but in terms of numbers, very small compared to pre-privatisation, and most of their major new contracts are put out to contracted tender.

[andy g]

Have to agree with you on a flyer !Far too much gloom and doom going off on here-(
Quite simply the members will have to show their strength at the ballot box first before RM will move again!
This fight is in our hands,show the slightest weakness and the con/dems and RM will exploit it !!
Stay solid and get behind your union,your terms and conditions will take care of themselves so long as we stay together !!!

[WHITEANT]

The PO is steadily breaking up the union ,what I mean by that is .The PO say that it will be a 75% fulltime and 25% part time THREWOUT THE NETWORK ,so what they do is make small offices which have no clout into full timers and the major offices more part time .W e know most part timers aren't in union so in a dispute you have a split. In my office we have quiet a few p/t ,short term contracts etc in a dispute most of these guys would go in . Yes it is 75/25 but in the right places .

[post_bitch]

The PO is steadily breaking up the union ,what I mean by that is .The PO say that it will be a 75% fulltime and 25% part time THREWOUT THE NETWORK ,so what they do is make small offices which have no clout into full timers and the major offices more part time .W e know most part timers aren't in union so in a dispute you have a split. In my office we have quiet a few p/t ,short term contracts etc in a dispute most of these guys would go in . Yes it is 75/25 but in the right places .

IF the union think its a problem then why not offer the part timers FREE inclusion to the union . therefore total support

[WHITEANT]

I wouldnt say free ,but just say £1 .50 just under half what we pay