cutting off problems

[eastie]

Posties on P/L in my office rang up the DOM during his round stating he was going to cut off.
About 2 hours before finishing time, one of the early start runners drove to his round to pick up his cut off to do for O/T.
The posties refused to give him the cut off because it was too early to work out where they would get to and told the postie who wanted to do the O/T that they would bring it back 10 minutes before finish time because he couldnt do O/T before your proper finish time anyway .
Am I right in thinking in theory you are not supposed to do O/T before you proper finishing time?

[Lateagainpostie]

It's called ghosting, and is not allowed, the lino's are breaking the rules to get the job done, but thats not new is it ?

[postmanplod69]

Done every day by Drivers on my sector(not the park and loop guys) called ghost docket one of the 28 Spanish practices that Crozier and Leighton went on about a few years back.

[crammypostie1]

had this issue about 4 month ago, got back early and sorted mail for next day, 4 guys that were back same time as me and 40 mins before finish time went out with a hand back. Went in office and told manager if it was oevertime as the lads said it was. Gaffa says no, the lads seemed confused. I said why am i standing here prepping mail and they go out in there spare 40 mins and claim overtime? sO I REFUSED. gaffa then says the lads are not claiming.... maybe it was a lie? My arguement was that they should have helped me with prep of mail then went out at end of shift to do overtime.... managers lie

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

The posties refused to give him the cut off because it was too early to work out where they would get to and told the postie who wanted to do the O/T that they would bring it back 10 minutes before finish time because he couldnt do O/T before your proper finish time anyway .

Your postie friend is not following the correct cut off procedure,

he should have informed the DOM as soon as it became apparent he could not finish on time and then let DOM make decision about how much to leave (with him agreeing he could complete the rest) its not a case of completing the delivery and then see whats left to hand over, then whatever time the other postie turned up to collect it then let him take it

Yes he is not supposed to be paid for OT during his normal hours but thats not for you or your P/L partner to enforce, if you think he shouldnt be doing it, then report it to your rep and let him deal with it

[UnhappyGremlin]

The posties refused to give him the cut off because it was too early to work out where they would get to and told the postie who wanted to do the O/T that they would bring it back 10 minutes before finish time because he couldnt do O/T before your proper finish time anyway .

Your postie friend is not following the correct cut off procedure,

he should have informed the DOM as soon as it became apparent he could not finish on time and then let DOM make decision about how much to leave (with him agreeing he could complete the rest) its not a case of completing the delivery and then see whats left to hand over, then whatever time the other postie turned up to collect it then let him take it

Yes he is not supposed to be paid for OT during his normal hours but thats not for you or your P/L partner to enforce, if you think he shouldnt be doing it, then report it to your rep and let him deal with it

The 2 posties may have told the DOM before going out that they wouldn't have time, and they may have said ring me later. Also, it is possible to be unable to complete as things can happen whilst out on delivery that delay you.
I think the point of the posties in question was that they couldn't say at that point how much they wouldn't manage to do, but if they were to give back too much and finish early, they'd never hear the end of it. And to be fair, they did ring as soon as they realised they wouldn't manage to complete, no doubt on their own phones at their own cost.

[chrisj]

I am sorry to disagree...

Its a bit petty of the posties cutting off to split-hairs about how much work to complete. So what if they were to finish a little early (they can estimate to within 10-15 minutes), they can slow down or find other things to do to occupy the extra time: they can tidy the van, fuel the van or even go back to the office to ask for extra work.

How do they expect the manager to cover the cut-off just 10 minutes before finish time? And we should think of the customers too - a failure of a bag or bags or several bundles is not just statistics.

Of course, I will love everyone to work to their time and having a clocking system and everyone returning to the office will support the 'principled' stance made by the cut-off posties here.

[BernardBresslaw]

Surely if a person is back early enough to have time to go out and pick up more mail and deliver it, during his delivery time, he should not be paid for it? More fool his manager.

Also, it is not always easy to judge how much you will need to cut-off before you go out on a delivery. If you have a sizable amount of packets, depending on the percentage of 739s you have to write out, this can add a fair amount to your delivery time. If everyone is in, then obviously you are going to save time. It's not always easy to judge.

[chrisj]

The OP was already halfway through the delivery... And nobody will ever do cut-off if it is a case of early finishers being made to do other people work without pay. It is a fine balance not just for the Manager but for the whole office and the customers.

The early finishers will simply work slower and do the work to the time. The manager is not a fool at all... (mail need to get out and that is what their priorities are). This is not a Mail Centre job, we are rarely overstaffed and it is one person one duty.

Although, I agree it is still possible for someone desperate enough to start Overtime exactly after their finish time but we know most people will prefer not to be out there till late (and some even do collections). Overtime these days involve collecting the mail and then possibly driving in one far direction or another and then the usual delivery (packets, recd etc), returns and admin.

No overtime takers usually means more lapse. I know we can say work to your time and all ,that but in my experience, most people just get on with the lapse rather than argue or be made to return to the office.

One time refused to work my day-off (got a call in the morning) and I was told on my return that they had to lapse that day...

Some folks are just faster than others at delivery; whether they run or not, who knows? manager allows you to cut-off without much bullying - how the OT is done should not be your concern or is it the green-eyed monster in effect?

[crammypostie1]

The OP was already halfway through the delivery... And nobody will ever do cut-off if it is a case of early finishers being made to do other people work without pay. It is a fine balance not just for the Manager but for the whole office and the customers.

The early finishers will simply work slower and do the work to the time. The manager is not a fool at all... (mail need to get out and that is what their priorities are). This is not a Mail Centre job, we are rarely overstaffed and it is one person one duty.

Although, I agree it is still possible for someone desperate enough to start Overtime exactly after their finish time but we know most people will prefer not to be out there till late (and some even do collections). Overtime these days involve collecting the mail and then possibly driving in one far direction or another and then the usual delivery (packets, recd etc), returns and admin.

No overtime takers usually means more lapse. I know we can say work to your time and all ,that but in my experience, most people just get on with the lapse rather than argue or be made to return to the office.

One time refused to work my day-off (got a call in the morning) and I was told on my return that they had to lapse that day...

Some folks are just faster than others at delivery; whether they run or not, who knows? manager allows you to cut-off without much bullying - how the OT is done should not be your concern or is it the green-eyed monster in effect?

agree and disagree but i see staff really taking the piss and slowing down on light days just to spread out the delivery or take time in office to get out lte on light days just to not get early

[eastie]

The problem was in this instance was the postie wanting to do the O/T was taking the piss coming in early so he could finish back 1st and hoover up all the cut offs .
The postie cutting off was holding on to it to make a point.
DOM had already gone home

[BernardBresslaw]

The OP was already halfway through the delivery... And nobody will ever do cut-off if it is a case of early finishers being made to do other people work without pay. It is a fine balance not just for the Manager but for the whole office and the customers.

The early finishers will simply work slower and do the work to the time. The manager is not a fool at all... (mail need to get out and that is what their priorities are). This is not a Mail Centre job, we are rarely overstaffed and it is one person one duty.

Although, I agree it is still possible for someone desperate enough to start Overtime exactly after their finish time but we know most people will prefer not to be out there till late (and some even do collections). Overtime these days involve collecting the mail and then possibly driving in one far direction or another and then the usual delivery (packets, recd etc), returns and admin.

No overtime takers usually means more lapse. I know we can say work to your time and all ,that but in my experience, most people just get on with the lapse rather than argue or be made to return to the office.

One time refused to work my day-off (got a call in the morning) and I was told on my return that they had to lapse that day...

Some folks are just faster than others at delivery; whether they run or not, who knows? manager allows you to cut-off without much bullying - how the OT is done should not be your concern or is it the green-eyed monster in effect?

I just believe that we are being paid to work between set hours - if you come in early, rush around and get back to the office early, you should expect to be sent out with the days cut-offs and not expect to be paid for it.

[chrisj]

I agree with the last 2 posters. And from my earlier posts, you can see that I am in favour of people working set hours. However, the vast majority are not! And that is the problem.

It is OK trying to make a point but not when the majority of your colleagues are not in favour; it is some sort of 'democrazy' in action.

The other issue apart from people coming in early is that some people have easier rounds/jobs - that also has to be tackled. I will rather see managers make people that has easier rounds come back for some more work than make some people that are genuinely fast come back.

As a Reserve, sometimes, I do really hard rounds and sometimes (not often; bcos those walkholders tend to do their days off or other favoured ppl get these rounds) much easier rounds. The system is just not fair.

Lastly, I have worked with more than half of the people in my office and the difference between the pace of work (no running or rushing) can be as much as 30-35minutes on a P&L and even 1 hour pre-revision.

Nobody needs to return to the office before finish time! Have your break (and even more) and just chillax!!

[eastie]

Nobody needs to return to the office before finish time! Have your break (and even more) and just chillax!!

There lies the problem chrisj , these runners need to get back 1st to get the cut offs. If they worked their time they would miss out.
If the DOM didnt go home early he could police it .
There lies the problem

[OnAFlyer]

IMO if the posties who were cutting off refused to give the mail to the guy who turned up to collect it from them, they should have completed.

If you refuse to give mail to someone who is being paid to take it, then return said mail to the office I can't see how it's anything other than wilful delay. It isn't anyone's job to police finish times and OT other than managers.