B & H How to lodge an appeal

[Lateagainpostie]

Long story short.

I took a B & H grievance out against a bloke who during the christmas pressure called me "lazy" and said that "I didn't do anything all day"
That was partially upheld for me.

Ten weeks after the incident, he filed a counter claim against me, I was told yesterday that his claim has been fully upheld, to tell the truth when I read the paperwork involved 60% of what his witnesses say never happened, the other 40% has been twisted in such a way that it makes out I was the aggressor, when in fact he started the whole thing by questioning my work methods, he is an OPG so am I.

The investigating manager in his claim, never took formal statements, I am assured by a witness who spoke on my behalf that it was no more than a five minute Q&A session, she actually said that she was only interested in specifics, not the full details.

Seven of the proposed nine allegations against me are about the procedures that have not been followed, only two relate to the actual incident, one of the allegations is that while he was sent to a different office, personal Items "went missing" from his delivery prep frame, which I have taken to mean he is basically accusing me of theft.

What I really want to know is that now I have been recommended for conduct code, what happens next ?
Am I entitled to have a Union rep with me when the code is issued, am I allowed to respond before or after the conduct code, what happens if I completely and totally disagree with the investigating managers findings, the report is so one sided, if it were a ship it would turn turtle.

I'm really at my wits end over this, my wife and I haven't really slept since I got the result, we were talking about it until 3am this morning, I was hoping to be considered for a PHG role, that now seems to have gone down the river.

I'm getting the feeling that the B&H system is a joke, when someone can put a counter claim in after they know the result of the initial claim, and the witness statements in the first claim can be totally ignored and those same people are not interviewed in the second claim.
I also find it amazing that a claimant can name his witnesses and these are the only people seen, out of an office of 14, the investigating manager only spoke to five, is that a fair representation of the workforce.

What I do know is, if I knew that this is how claimants are treated, I would never have put in the claim in the first place.

And I've also found out today from a colleague in the office, that when he found out his claim had been upheld he told all the office, despite it supposed to be in confidence.

[Postie45]

for the theft part, I take it youre not in an office of 2 people ? unless there is more evidence that you were the one to take his stuff then that allegation must be thrown out.
The conduct code includes an appeal procedure where you will put your side of the story. you are entitled to CWU rep, I think it is *fair* that they are taking your colleagues accusations seriously as they should, just make the things clear about what you want to say in your defense prior to any meeting. Maybe write out what you want to say and points you wish to raise so you are well prepared.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Stating the obvious, but it's sounds like a major fit up. Remember, they have to prove any allegations, if they have accused you of theft, they must prove it.

The only warning I will give, is I have recently been conduct coded for something I didn't do. When they failed in bullying me into confessing to it, they got two of the bosses pets to put it statements against me. There was no corroborating eveidence, just what the witnesses said, and as they waited ages to make the charge against me, there was no way I could disprove the charge as any potential paperwork/computer records I could have used in my defence had been erased/destroyed. Although, this probably wouldn't have mattered, as I had asked previously for access to related documents but was denied. They can use it against you, but I was told I can't have access to use documents for my defence.

[Glenno]

Stating the obvious, but it's sounds like a major fit up. Remember, they have to prove any allegations, if they have accused you of theft, they must prove it.

The only warning I will give, is I have recently been conduct coded for something I didn't do. When they failed in bullying me into confessing to it, they got two of the bosses pets to put it statements against me. There was no corroborating evidence, just what the witnesses said, and as they waited ages to make the charge against me, there was no way I could disprove the charge as any potential paperwork/computer records I could have used in my defence had been erased/destroyed. Although, this probably wouldn't have mattered, as I had asked previously for access to related documents but was denied. They can use it against you, but I was told I can't have access to use documents for my defence.

7 ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS
Information and documents that a manager may rely on in reaching his or her decision should be made available in advance of interviews, normally at least two working days. Only in certain cases will access to some papers be denied, e.g. if Solicitors recommend. Legal advice to Royal Mail will not be disclosed.

In cases where the anonymity of witnesses has to be preserved, information/documents released will be presented in such a way to achieve that objective in accordance with Employment Appeal Tribunal.

[General Mannerheim]

I'm getting the feeling that the B&H system is a joke,

What took you so long?
It is a joke because
1.Most of the time they revert it to only a grievance if it's against a manager.
2.They use the `bad faith` bolloxs.
3.The system is open to counter claims and fit ups.
4.The investigating managers are NOT impartial.
5.confidentiality is breached most times.
6.They like taking people down the conduct code for daring to use it.

[UnhappyGremlin]

Stating the obvious, but it's sounds like a major fit up. Remember, they have to prove any allegations, if they have accused you of theft, they must prove it.

The only warning I will give, is I have recently been conduct coded for something I didn't do. When they failed in bullying me into confessing to it, they got two of the bosses pets to put it statements against me. There was no corroborating evidence, just what the witnesses said, and as they waited ages to make the charge against me, there was no way I could disprove the charge as any potential paperwork/computer records I could have used in my defence had been erased/destroyed. Although, this probably wouldn't have mattered, as I had asked previously for access to related documents but was denied. They can use it against you, but I was told I can't have access to use documents for my defence.

7 ACCESS TO DOCUMENTS
Information and documents that a manager may rely on in reaching his or her decision should be made available in advance of interviews, normally at least two working days. Only in certain cases will access to some papers be denied, e.g. if Solicitors recommend. Legal advice to Royal Mail will not be disclosed.

In cases where the anonymity of witnesses has to be preserved, information/documents released will be presented in such a way to achieve that objective in accordance with Employment Appeal Tribunal.

I am fully aware of all this. The point I was making was not related to the documents they were using against me, but the fact I was not allowed to access infromation I knew would prove my innocence. Despite asking more than once. In my opinion, I was not allowed to adequately defend myself.

[coxie]

Bit of a harsh grievance to put in in the first place if you ask me, you've opened a can of worms now and obviously the person is going to make counter claims, I would if I was him.

[Lateagainpostie]

Bit of a harsh grievance to put in in the first place if you ask me, you've opened a can of worms now and obviously the person is going to make counter claims, I would if I was him.

So if someone call you lazy and said you didn't do anything all day you wouldn't take action, especially during Christmas pressure when he was refusing to take out more than 20 packets, and the rest of the office were breaking their necks to get everything delivered every day ?

[fishtank]

So if someone call you lazy and said you didn't do anything all day you wouldn't take action,

If it was a one off I would probably tell them to "mind their own business".
If it happened again I would ask them to stop and warn them of the consequences of not stopping.
If it continued...then I would consider taking it further.

[Lateagainpostie]

So if someone call you lazy and said you didn't do anything all day you wouldn't take action,

If it was a one off I would probably tell them to "mind their own business".
If it happened again I would ask them to stop and warn them of the consequences of not stopping.
If it continued...then I would consider taking it further.

The bloke in question has a history of making some peoples lives hell, he had an informal brought against him, and was told to apologise to the person concerned, he never has, he also has a go at people when they are alone, this bloke has to take me to my duty drop off point, and pick me up at the end of the walk, he is always moaning about how long the walk takes me to do, says he has to be home by 2:30 to start his second job, my finish time is 3:18, so is his, in the past he has told me to cut off if I can't complete by 2, I never have.
He has also refused to pick me up when it's pissing down, leaving me for 20 mins stood in the rain, his excuse was "I couldn't get any wetter"