Can anyone tell me if this was guaranteed in the current pay deal ?
What we're being told in our office is that we can only have 1 in 4 Saturdays off, if a certain amount of full time staff take buy-down's ? is this right ?
If it comes in, is it designed to work for all staff or is it just for the floaters, and permanent round holders, yet again, the same as when the 5-day week came in, and the leave reserves get crapped on yet again, where they get a random day off, which is rarely a saturday, unless its during annual leave ?
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1 in 4 Saturdays
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Jambomatt1874
- Posts: 168
- Joined: 30 Mar 2010, 19:26
- Gender: Male
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
According to our manager it was a carrot royal mail gave us to get a revision in. It was never going to happen according to him. Our floaters and reserves never get a long weekend, there days off are changed to suit the office requirements weekly. This whole agreement is a shambles and the union are of no help whatsoever to our d.o .
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100%
- Posts: 33
- Joined: 07 Jun 2010, 20:56
- Gender: Male
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
There are no buy downs as there is no money in the pot. we were told this week. anyone know if true.
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UnhappyGremlin
- Posts: 2685
- Joined: 18 May 2012, 20:49
- Gender: Male
- Location: Hiding
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
I believe this would come under what New Labour called an aspiration, but I don't think it was guarenteed. I also think it depends on how good your CWU rep(s) are in doing their jobs with regards to revisions.
Cannot rule out managers trying to use the situation to get something from the workforce, in our office when we had our vote on which duty patterns to have, the ones the staff preferred 'would cost full time jobs' where as the one RM pushed 'ensured and protected' full time jobs. RM's choice was ignored, and no jobs were lost.
Cannot rule out managers trying to use the situation to get something from the workforce, in our office when we had our vote on which duty patterns to have, the ones the staff preferred 'would cost full time jobs' where as the one RM pushed 'ensured and protected' full time jobs. RM's choice was ignored, and no jobs were lost.
Last edited by UnhappyGremlin on 10 Mar 2013, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
Sometimes, I wish I wasn't a Rep.
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DirtyHarry
- Posts: 5051
- Joined: 13 May 2007, 23:16
- Gender: Male
- Location: London
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
We were conned, pure and simple.
1 in 4 Saturdays off, with 3 very hard, very long Saturdays on, would be no improvement on having a half-day EVERY SATURDAY, anyway.
1 in 4 Saturdays off, with 3 very hard, very long Saturdays on, would be no improvement on having a half-day EVERY SATURDAY, anyway.
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HeilMoya
- Posts: 48
- Joined: 26 May 2010, 16:23
- Gender: Male
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
Think yourselves lucky you get a Saturday off. Haven't had a Saturday off in years 
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wdo1256
- Posts: 107
- Joined: 10 May 2007, 19:44
- Location: Wirral
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
Hi All
We have 1 in 4 Saturdays off. The whole office is on this shift. This happened in May 2011
week one Monday
week two Tues, Weds
Week three Thursday
Week four Friday, sat off
We were one of the first to go through the revision and the DOM has mentioned plenty of times that they wouldn't offer it again. True to his word he is planning to revert us back to a five day week this April.
Managers find it hard to get staff in to cover the duties, cutting staff to the limit has led to the office needing people to come in. People enjoy the extra time off especially the Fri - Mon long weekend every 4 weeks and also are that tierd that they don't want to work thier day off. That is why they are against the 9 day fortnight and trying to phase it out.
The other issues is that with the time span of delivery being longer than a five day duty it shows up even more the problems of pegsasus and the call rate.
Monday and Tuesday are OK, however the rest of the week vans can't cope loops are given to the casuals and they even bring work back,
Royal Mails great plan to solve this problem is to cut the office budget by 5%
Even if you do get the 1 in 4 how long will it last ? It's just like job and finish and the old days (I do understand we will never go back)
We have 1 in 4 Saturdays off. The whole office is on this shift. This happened in May 2011
week one Monday
week two Tues, Weds
Week three Thursday
Week four Friday, sat off
We were one of the first to go through the revision and the DOM has mentioned plenty of times that they wouldn't offer it again. True to his word he is planning to revert us back to a five day week this April.
Managers find it hard to get staff in to cover the duties, cutting staff to the limit has led to the office needing people to come in. People enjoy the extra time off especially the Fri - Mon long weekend every 4 weeks and also are that tierd that they don't want to work thier day off. That is why they are against the 9 day fortnight and trying to phase it out.
The other issues is that with the time span of delivery being longer than a five day duty it shows up even more the problems of pegsasus and the call rate.
Monday and Tuesday are OK, however the rest of the week vans can't cope loops are given to the casuals and they even bring work back,
Royal Mails great plan to solve this problem is to cut the office budget by 5%
Even if you do get the 1 in 4 how long will it last ? It's just like job and finish and the old days (I do understand we will never go back)
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ninja
- Posts: 193
- Joined: 08 Sep 2010, 20:16
- Gender: Male
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
I could go on and on about the business view on what the BT agreement is but below is the actual words from the agreement. In short the planners view that the unit has to self fund the 1 in 4 is wrong hence this is why reserves are covered. The main problem seems to be that the planners view that when the unit agrees a BSI target improvement then the reduction of hours belongs to them. In this case 50BSI means 600hrs indoors per week and 70BSI means 400hrs per week, so the 200hrs reduction is classed as savings from the planners point of view, this is wrong and outside of the agreement because some of these hours be have to be reinvested to meet the 1 in 4.
Saturday Attendances
In addition to the above it is jointly recognised that Saturday attendances and in particular the number of Saturdays worked require special attention in order to meet the aspirations of employees and the needs of the business.
In recognition of this Royal Mail and CWU commit to providing more Saturday off options as part of improved attendance patterns for delivery employees. We have jointly explored and identified a number of options/opportunities to maximise the number of Saturdays off.
Whilst the precise number of Saturdays off and the aspirations of employees will vary from unit to unit, both parties believe we can deliver cost effective and reliable options that will maximise the number of Saturdays off for those who wish them. Royal Mail and CWU commit to achieving at least 1 in 4 Saturdays off for the majority of employees (including reserves) during the roll out of the operational transformation programme. In some circumstances this may be exceeded utilising jointly identified options to provide 1 Saturday off in 2 or 3.
Progress on all the issues/objectives above will be jointly monitored and reviewed at national level on an ongoing basis.
Saturday Attendances
In addition to the above it is jointly recognised that Saturday attendances and in particular the number of Saturdays worked require special attention in order to meet the aspirations of employees and the needs of the business.
In recognition of this Royal Mail and CWU commit to providing more Saturday off options as part of improved attendance patterns for delivery employees. We have jointly explored and identified a number of options/opportunities to maximise the number of Saturdays off.
Whilst the precise number of Saturdays off and the aspirations of employees will vary from unit to unit, both parties believe we can deliver cost effective and reliable options that will maximise the number of Saturdays off for those who wish them. Royal Mail and CWU commit to achieving at least 1 in 4 Saturdays off for the majority of employees (including reserves) during the roll out of the operational transformation programme. In some circumstances this may be exceeded utilising jointly identified options to provide 1 Saturday off in 2 or 3.
Progress on all the issues/objectives above will be jointly monitored and reviewed at national level on an ongoing basis.
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heapsy
- Posts: 2972
- Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 23:40
- Gender: Male
- Location: Drinking with Gangsters
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
"Can anyone tell me if this was guaranteed in the current pay deal ?"What we're being told in our office is that we can only have 1 in 4 Saturdays off, if a certain amount of full time staff take buy-down's ? is this right ?
If it comes in, is it designed to work for all staff or is it just for the floaters, and permanent round holders, yet again, the same as when the 5-day week came in, and the leave reserves get crapped on yet again, where they get a random day off, which is rarely a saturday, unless its during annual leave ?
Simply put... no
We were conned into voting for it. Nobody in our area, and I work in a very large district actually got 1 in 4 or anything like it. In fact the management and union rep sent by branch, opposed it. Yet another example of the union not doing what it is supposed to do.
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clashcityrocker
- Posts: 16689
- Joined: 22 Sep 2009, 13:50
- Gender: Male
- Location: strummerville
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
What would the consequences of 1 in 4 have been for your district in terms of jobs, delivery spans and FT/PT ratio?heapsy wrote:
Simply put... no
We were conned into voting for it. Nobody in our area, and I work in a very large district actually got 1 in 4 or anything like it. In fact the management and union rep sent by branch, opposed it. Yet another example of the union not doing what it is supposed to do.
The societies of consumption and squandering of material resources are incompatible with the idea of economic growth and a clean planet.
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heapsy
- Posts: 2972
- Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 23:40
- Gender: Male
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Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
We were told there would be job losses and that the part timers would not get the 1 in 4 Saturdays. Really made me mad that did. Had a right go at the rep, told him they were just fobbing us off. Fell on deaf ears and it's now history.clashcityrocker wrote:What would the consequences of 1 in 4 have been for your district in terms of jobs, delivery spans and FT/PT ratio?heapsy wrote:
Simply put... no
We were conned into voting for it. Nobody in our area, and I work in a very large district actually got 1 in 4 or anything like it. In fact the management and union rep sent by branch, opposed it. Yet another example of the union not doing what it is supposed to do.
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chrisj
- Posts: 1883
- Joined: 21 Dec 2010, 16:24
- Gender: Male
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
How can 1 in 4 saturdays work in reality...
* We have a 6-day working week yet when we have 5 days holiday; we take 6 days - including the saturday.
* Posties are allowed to buy extra holidays which means more saturdays to be covered
* Long-term sickness saturdays has to be covered by (Reserves or volunteers on OT)
* Posties on long-term sick can still take the holidays - and if the postie has 5/6 weeks hols plus bought extra; then more saturdays has to be covered
There is just more important issues to worry about for members than 1 in 4 saturdays. Or lest just get rid of Saturday deliveries altogether so that we can all 'get a life'.
* We have a 6-day working week yet when we have 5 days holiday; we take 6 days - including the saturday.
* Posties are allowed to buy extra holidays which means more saturdays to be covered
* Long-term sickness saturdays has to be covered by (Reserves or volunteers on OT)
* Posties on long-term sick can still take the holidays - and if the postie has 5/6 weeks hols plus bought extra; then more saturdays has to be covered
There is just more important issues to worry about for members than 1 in 4 saturdays. Or lest just get rid of Saturday deliveries altogether so that we can all 'get a life'.
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wdo1256
- Posts: 107
- Joined: 10 May 2007, 19:44
- Location: Wirral
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
chrisj wrote:How can 1 in 4 saturdays work in reality...
* We have a 6-day working week yet when we have 5 days holiday; we take 6 days - including the saturday.
* Posties are allowed to buy extra holidays which means more saturdays to be covered
* Long-term sickness saturdays has to be covered by (Reserves or volunteers on OT)
* Posties on long-term sick can still take the holidays - and if the postie has 5/6 weeks hols plus bought extra; then more saturdays has to be covered
There is just more important issues to worry about for members than 1 in 4 saturdays. Or lest just get rid of Saturday deliveries altogether so that we can all 'get a life'.
The 1 in 4 was suppose to give us better work/life balance as under the USO we have to deliver to every address 6 days a week.
In our office It has made trying to get days off impossible due to lack of staff - also the walks are very long.
I'm still prefer if mainly for the long weekend every 4 weeks Finishing on Thursday and don't have to return till Tuesday.
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chrisj
- Posts: 1883
- Joined: 21 Dec 2010, 16:24
- Gender: Male
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
There! You have said it; 1 in 4 will require more staff and it throws a lot of things out of sync. As someone said here, folks are so knackered because of what they have to do whilst working; that they actually need the damn rest after 4 gruelling weeks...
Slow and steady for me. I am one of the few that actually prefer a mid week day off - I am very flexible and by wed or thursday, I am slightly tired so I need the rest then; not on a saturday when I am totally knackered to even enjoy the weekend. Anyway, each to their own.
But RM's plan is to cut staff not increase them; so where people vote for 1 in 4, managers will have less flexibility and in the end the whole office might suffer - defo lapsing as well.
Lastly, what do you mean by trying to get a day off? You mean a day off on top of the normal sequence. I can understand why we might need time off but as you said, it will be too hard to get people to work their days off under the 1 in 4. Ppl taking saturdays off out of sequence is the reason why some reserves rarely gets saturdays off.
People shd only get a different saturday off if are willing to work their own regular saturdays off.
Slow and steady for me. I am one of the few that actually prefer a mid week day off - I am very flexible and by wed or thursday, I am slightly tired so I need the rest then; not on a saturday when I am totally knackered to even enjoy the weekend. Anyway, each to their own.
But RM's plan is to cut staff not increase them; so where people vote for 1 in 4, managers will have less flexibility and in the end the whole office might suffer - defo lapsing as well.
Lastly, what do you mean by trying to get a day off? You mean a day off on top of the normal sequence. I can understand why we might need time off but as you said, it will be too hard to get people to work their days off under the 1 in 4. Ppl taking saturdays off out of sequence is the reason why some reserves rarely gets saturdays off.
People shd only get a different saturday off if are willing to work their own regular saturdays off.
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heapsy
- Posts: 2972
- Joined: 02 Jun 2007, 23:40
- Gender: Male
- Location: Drinking with Gangsters
Re: 1 in 4 Saturdays
The number of duties within a group could have been altered to accommodate this. Why should there always be 5 walks plus a rotation duty in the group? Why not 4 plus 1. This would create more groups within the office if replicated. Not thinking differently allowed our managers to keep things as they are. If the agreement was to be implemented a different way of thinking would be needed. A compromise might be to have more Mondays off instead of Saturday. There is always scope for something different. Our area reps together with local and national have let us down badly. What was the point of negotiating the deal then going back on it? 