Shorter Working Week - 28 Jan 2013

[Ahebban]

I trust we have all had a merry christmas and looking forward to the New Year

Any sign yet of the 'Menu of Options' promised for those offices outside of DMRs before 28 January 2013?

[Martin Walsh]

My understanding is the union only want one option and that is you get one hour per week banked as annual leave for every week until you have introduced your revision. Part timers will get the increase in the hourly rate from the 28th January.

Royal mail wanted 3 options including a link to BSI which the union has rejected. This will be negotiated early in the new year.

[dvbuk55]

My understanding is the union only want one option and that is you get one hour per week banked as annual leave for every week until you have introduced your revision. Part timers will get the increase in the hourly rate from the 28th January.

Royal mail wanted 3 options including a link to BSI which the union has rejected. This will be negotiated early in the new year.

Is this within the same agreement as job security which branch supposedly had dealings or an adjunct.

[mandelsons_toenail]

Banked hour

Shambles

My members want a reduction every day of 12m

[dvbuk55]

Banked hour

Shambles

My members want a reduction every day of 12m

I don't know if it takes another 3 years for the remainder of the revisions then I calculate the 1500th will have 3 x 52 hours which is 156 or almost an extra 3 weeks holiday BUT what are the rules regarding the recovery of the hours and what if you leave before the revision but have accrued banked hours. Lets just say you have accrued 40 hrs, haven't had a revision but want to cash them in for an extra weeks holiday and the remainder of the office want to do the same.
It does sound a leeetle bit like the old "jam tomorrow" for full timers whereas part timers get an immediate reward - is this yet another case of "winners and losers".

[DGP1]

Banked hour

Shambles

My members want a reduction every day of 12m

I don't know if it takes another 3 years for the remainder of the revisions then I calculate the 1500th will have 3 x 52 hours which is 156 or almost an extra 3 weeks holiday BUT what are the rules regarding the recovery of the hours and what if you leave before the revision but have accrued banked hours. Lets just say you have accrued 40 hrs, haven't had a revision but want to cash them in for an extra weeks holiday and the remainder of the office want to do the same.
It does sound a leeetle bit like the old "jam tomorrow" for full timers whereas part timers get an immediate reward - is this yet another case of "winners and losers".

But I'm sure someone will just attack you over that POV (and completely ignore me ).

[dvbuk55]

Banked hour

Shambles

My members want a reduction every day of 12m

I don't know if it takes another 3 years for the remainder of the revisions then I calculate the 1500th will have 3 x 52 hours which is 156 or almost an extra 3 weeks holiday BUT what are the rules regarding the recovery of the hours and what if you leave before the revision but have accrued banked hours. Lets just say you have accrued 40 hrs, haven't had a revision but want to cash them in for an extra weeks holiday and the remainder of the office want to do the same.
It does sound a leeetle bit like the old "jam tomorrow" for full timers whereas part timers get an immediate reward - is this yet another case of "winners and losers".

But I'm sure someone will just attack you over that POV (and completely ignore me ).

Oh I do hope so DG, although they should be warned I shoot to kill

[Martin Walsh]

Banked hour

Shambles

My members want a reduction every day of 12m

The whole point of the union securing the commitment to the 39 hour week for all offices who have yet to have a revison from the 28th January is that you cannot simply reduce the working day without an impact on an office. You see Royal Mail would love that everyone simply absorbs the hour per week but that is not possible or desirable everywhere.

Let's say your offices revison is 30 weeks away, are you seriously saying to me your members would rather absorb 12 minutes per day , rather than have 30 hours more annual leave ? And then introducing the shorter working week on a planned and agreeable basis where you might be working less than 5 days every week due to your office selecting from the menu of options.

I know this particular measure worked well in the mail centres and could from the 28th January in delivery offices.

[dvbuk55]

Was the banked hour available prior to this new agreement and will it be retrospective to offices that have already had revisions. Full timers, although having a 39 hour week with a 12 minutes a day reduction, do exactly the same duty as they did with a 40 hr week the only difference being in the start time - ie it was 0700 - it is now 0712 and a duty of 640 drops is now ---------------640 drops. So yes the hour banked would be beneficial providing it could be claimed in a timely fashion - but of course nobody has seen the agreement yet.

[gb93]

Dingo is talking complete sense, hope the union do secure that option.
But that wont stop the usual "the union has sold us down the river" & "we will be better off without the union" comments.

[dvbuk55]

Dingo is talking complete sense, hope the union do secure that option.
But that wont stop the usual "the union has sold us down the river" & "we will be better off without the union" comments.

I wouldn't go that far until I have seen the agreement. If the option is available to everyone them I'm all for it but if it is only available to those select few now then I am not. That's the problem with an agreement that has dragged on for three years, it keeps being amended to the detriment of those who have been reeled in first. Are we to assume that once the revision is in then those who have benefited by the hour a week will then lose it and be reined in to 12 minutes a day? You see it sounds good but what is the agreement?

[fishtank]

The only drawbacks to the banking of hours scenario is that these offices will be tasked with extra lapsing to compensate and the extra annual leave will place a massive strain on annual leave allocation next year so perhaps some clarification or guidance for the reps involved would be a good idea...

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I wonder if there is a hidden cost - if we accept banking of hours towards leave for this one scenario, how much of a fight can we put up when the business try to bring in an agreement on Banking hours/claw backs.

Mind you there are drawbacks to the alternative of keeping the hours but raising the pay rate. Its a hard one but could it end up being a strategic mistake.

[fishtank]

if we accept banking of hours towards leave for this one scenario, how much of a fight can we put up when the business try to bring in an agreement on Banking hours/claw backs.

There was already a precedence set in processing for banking the SWW against annual leave in the BT2010 agreement although i agree with you,it's not something i would like to see become common practice.

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk the cut off of the 28th January is for offices who have yet to have a seqeucning revision which introduces a 39 hour week for full timers and an increase in the hourly rate for part times and delivers the £800 payment ( £600 and £200 ).

If you have not had this by the 28th January due to where your office has been in the programme then your will be entitled to an hours credit for each week that you have not introduced a 39 hour week. For part timers they will automatically get an increase on the hourly rate.

Now the CWUs postion is that we believe the hour should be banked each week until they introduce the revison. It worked in the mail centres and they had the choice of either SA or annual leave on what hours were banked.

Of course it would not apply to any office who is currently on 39 hours as they have already had a reduction in the working week even thou some may now be doing more work as result of increasing their productivty. The most they should be working excluding paid meal reliefs is 36 hours 20 mins.