The Aim from the announcement

[Martin Walsh]

People are reacting to yesterday , the press and media are reacting to yesterday , radio phone shows are speaking about this and sorting and delivery offices are talking about it. There is a lobby tomorrow which will bring the issue to the MPs.

The union are not at this point asking any postal worker to not deliver any mail at this point and their will be a ballot of members carried out by an independent body. The union is nowhere near this point at the moment. However asking the members not to deliver mail is not the end game for the CWU it is to stop further unfair competition which will if left to continue threaten the future of the USO and threaten thousands of jobs within the industry.

DSA was unfair, due to off comm Royal Mail are now making a profit from DSA for the first time. However the real threat for the USO is that those competitors who have A DSA foothold offering an end to end service like TNT. Amazon have just set up a delivery force in Oxford which is worrying.

TNT in London are not even paying the living wage , they deliver once or twice per week to an address all be it 6 days a week. TNT post workers have to deliver to a number of postcodes. What they do not want to deliver they post back into Royal Mail 80,000 items were posted back into Royal Mail in the first 26 weeks of the trial. Royal Mail cannot claim compensation as it is against competition law.

You see if TNT who want to expan their operation to 40% of the urban areas in the UK in the next two years get a foothold not only will thousands of jobs go so will the USO especially in the rurals where it costs more now to deliver.

Camaigns change and by the time you are balloted who knows whether it will be also against a further attack on pensions , against the terms of privitisation and who knows whether it will be a consultative ballot or an industrial action.

Those who say it is too late should really look what has happened to BT and British Gas after competition was delivered in their core part of the industry. Plus the attack on their terms and conditions.

Simple choice in this , fight for your future and support your campaign or let your opinion be clouded about what has happened under BT2010 which will be far better then if both end to end and privitisation come in.

[Lounge Lizard]

Can anyone on here explain "What they do not want to deliver they post back into Royal Mail 80,000 items were posted back into Royal Mail in the first 26 weeks of the trial. Royal Mail cannot claim compensation as it is against competition law" ?
By 'post back into Royal Mail 80,000 items' is this not being properly submitted as DSA, in which case surely they should be surcharged for £1.50 each.

[k979aaa]

To dingo why did the CWU not do this 7 years ago ?.

[bennny7]

yes please tell us why when they have destroyed the job wait 7 years to do this what are they so scared of

[Martin Walsh]

Who has Destroyed the job ? Let me guess the CWU came up with the idea of automation , longer Saturdays , d2d into workload , CDVs , absorption, closure of mail centres. Get real , the reality is Royal Mail had wanted most of those for over a decade. D2D has been in most agreements for over a decade.

The CWU has been able to protect these attacks in the past but the government loan meant it was impossible to stop automation , CDVs etc. in the end a deal was done which whilst you might not have voted in but the majority of those that voted said yes.

Now 979 , I think the union did campaign against DSA when it started. Unlike Crozier who welcomed it by saying bring it on and then promptly done a crap deal on the price.

The reason why we did not say don't deliver it then is open for debate. However no one thought it would grow as it did and no one expected them to set up a deliver force in the way they are and intending to expand on.

Was it a mistake well yes I believe it was but it depends if you believe we will be asked to actually boycot the stuff ! Personally I think it is more likely that we will end up in a far bigger battle about future terms , pensions and privatisation.

[cyclemech1]

Who has Destroyed the job ? Let me guess the CWU came up with the idea of automation , longer Saturdays , d2d into workload , CDVs , absorption, closure of mail centres. Get real , the reality is Royal Mail had wanted most of those for over a decade. D2D has been in most agreements for over a decade.

The CWU has been able to protect these attacks in the past but the government loan meant it was impossible to stop automation , CDVs etc. in the end a deal was done which whilst you might not have voted in but the majority of those that voted said yes.

Now 979 , I think the union did campaign against DSA when it started. Unlike Crozier who welcomed it by saying bring it on and then promptly done a crap deal on the price.

The reason why we did not say don't deliver it then is open for debate. However no one thought it would grow as it did and no one expected them to set up a deliver force in the way they are and intending to expand on.

Was it a mistake well yes I believe it was but it depends if you believe we will be asked to actually boycot the stuff ! Personally I think it is more likely that we will end up in a far bigger battle about future terms , pensions and privatisation.

Most ordinary OPGs saw this coming as soon as DSA started. How come 'our betters' (both CWU and RM) didn't?

[POSTMAN]

However no one thought it would grow as it did and no one expected them to set up a deliver force in the way they are and intending to expand on.

Your thoughts or HQ's?
If it's yours,you get a gentle clip round the ear,if it's HQ's,then it's seriously funny as f**k.
The militant loonies on here have been talking about this for years.

[Martin Walsh]

I remember we took a confin to post comm on the day DSA was allowed which said we were seeing the death of the USO. So we did all know the threat the point I was making was in 7 years no one even post comm predicted they would now have 50% of the profitable part of the mail.

We all knew it would be a threat that was easy part but the timescale it took well how many on here said 50% in 7 years ? If you did what are the lottery numbers this week ?

[feduppostie]

dingo I know you mean well and i'm sure we all appreciate your efforts on here to keep us in the loop

but the truth sadly is as much as the press and joe public react to this - most of our workforce is now made up of people on temporary contracts who will not risk their jobs by doing this

they have families to feed and are scared if they do any industrial action they won't get their contracts renewed

please tell HQ to get their heads out of the sand and listen to the membership

just my opinion

[POSTMAN]

To be fair and I blame Teebs,we have countless news items on here about this firm,that hospital trust,that council,that bank,even footie clubs,this that and the other saving tens of thousands of pounds a year cause they switched to DSA going back years.

Sorry Dingo,HQ being suprised,is a bit of a joke.

[cyclemech1]

I remember we took a confin to post comm on the day DSA was allowed which said we were seeing the death of the USO. So we did all know the threat the point I was making was in 7 years no one even post comm predicted they would now have 50% of the profitable part of the mail.

We all knew it would be a threat that was easy part but the timescale it took well how many on here said 50% in 7 years ? If you did what are the lottery numbers this week ?

I'm surprised it took 7 years, when all the vultures descended on the major posters as soon as they could and took away our profits. I don't think you needed to be a fortune teller to see that one coming!

[Martin Walsh]

For the record only a fraction of the workforce is made up of the temporary workers. The recent national agreement on job security will ensure some of the current temporary workers get a permanent contract.

One of the many roles the CWUs have is to highlight the issues which we face and are threats to the members terms and conditions.

TNT delivery workforce is one , the 20 000 jobs they will create are likely to mean they reduce 20 000 of our jobs. Royal Mail want to farm work out to other places which can be done for less which will threaten jobs.

Privitisation will mean our existing terms will be reviewed , it has happened in every other sell off which will mean our terms will attacked as whoever is the share holder will want cheaper costs.

So the CWU should highlight theses issues , of course some won't listen until it is too late and then they will moan at those who highlighted the threats ages ago. I only hope enough understand the real threat to our futures rather than sleep walk into their worst nightmares.

[feduppostie]

For the record only a fraction of the workforce is made up of the temporary workers. The recent national agreement on job security will ensure some of the current temporary workers get a permanent contract.

.

Some? why isn't the union pushing for all? It is all well and good saying the union is working on it

try telling that to a man with a wife and 3 kids on a temp 25 hour contract that the union expects to ( in their mind anyway) risk his job by complying with the unions wishes and boycotting DSA for a day

this next rant is not directly aimed at you Dingo but please feel free to feed it above

what planet do they live on seriously? they need to realise that despite what you say in my office anyway at least 50% of the office is made up of people on temp contracts who NEED this job to survive ( hardly a fraction)

and at the moment that have exactly 0% bargaining power because they are temporary - so if they want their contract renewed they have to toe the line

What the union are asking is simply not an option for them

FFS wake up and smell the coffee - this is 2012 not 1970 - there is a whole army of people out there ready willing and desperate to take those temp contract jobs from anyone who rocks the boat

we are your membership why won't you listen to us?

[robd]

ironically,it won't make a blind bit of difference on delivery,cos nobody in any shape or form of royal mail management includes DSA in their figures

[k979aaa]

For the record only a fraction of the workforce is made up of the temporary workers. The recent national agreement on job security will ensure some of the current temporary workers get a permanent contract.

.

Some? why isn't the union pushing for all? It is all well and good saying the union is working on it

try telling that to a man with a wife and 3 kids on a temp 25 hour contract that the union expects to ( in their mind anyway) risk his job by complying with the unions wishes and boycotting DSA for a day

this next rant is not directly aimed at you Dingo but please feel free to feed it above

what planet do they live on seriously? they need to realise that despite what you say in my office anyway at least 50% of the office is made up of people on temp contracts who NEED this job to survive ( hardly a fraction)

and at the moment that have exactly 0% bargaining power because they are temporary - so if they want their contract renewed they have to toe the line

What the union are asking is simply not an option for them

FFS wake up and smell the coffee - this is 2012 not 1970 - there is a whole army of people out there ready willing and desperate to take those temp contract jobs from anyone who rocks the boat

we are your membership why won't you listen to us?

I as a full time postman have witnessed this they the part-time temporary workers are the ones who are picked upon for a quick fix as are long time full time are targeted to enable more part-time/temps to work under duress/pressure it is a double edged sword!. We must look out for all regardless of our term's and conditions the union has a 25% PT to 75% FT split as agreed in 2010.