Shouldn't managers enforce people to have breaks

[Ben35]

Hello, shouldn't managers enforce ppl to have breaks during shift rather than at the end. Is there any document what states this?

[fishtank]

No.
Management do not have to enforce breaks,they have to provide breaks and supply a place to take your break and they should not do anything that could be seen as discouraging people from taking their break but if people are stupid enough not to take a break well...Stupid is as stupid does.
You can't,however take all of your break at the end and management can't encourage or allow this practice.

[Danelectro]

No.
Management do not have to enforce breaks,they have to provide breaks and supply a place to take your break and they should not do anything that could be seen as discouraging people from taking their break but if people are stupid enough not to take a break well...Stupid is as stupid does.
You can't,however take all of your break at the end and management can't encourage or allow this practice.

Fish I thought its part of BT2010 that a break must be taken before delivery? needless to say 90% take break at end,an example encouraged by the AR-surely he should be setting an example etc

[Ben35]

So if people's finish time is 3pm and they finish at 3pm but haven't had their break management shouldn't allow them to book the 40mins overtime?

[Danelectro]

So if people's finish time is 3pm and they finish at 3pm but haven't had their break management shouldn't allow them to book the 40mins overtime?

well the rep should be on top of this,if DOM dosnt want to pay the OT then i would say make sure the break is taken before delivery and discuss at WTL etc...it does get payed most of the time at my office but a lot of staff dont book OT they are entitled to in the first place

[fishtank]

So if people's finish time is 3pm and they finish at 3pm but haven't had their break management shouldn't allow them to book the 40mins overtime?

Exactly.
In my office a break is scheduled at 08.40.
It is up to members if they take the full 40 minutes then or 20 minutes and keep 20 minutes for during delivery or until the end of their shift but if they take no break at all the most they can hold back is 20 minutes so they have effectively surrendered the other 20 minutes.
The way forward states that only part of a split 20/20 or 30/20 break can be taken at the end,not the full break and the working time directive states that a minimum 20 minutes must be taken as near as reasonably possible to the middle of your working day so leaving it all to the end would be in breach of both documents.

[Onmyown]

The dom does pay the 40mins, but isnt that saying it ppl its find to have your full break at the end.

[fishtank]

Fish I thought its part of BT2010 that a break must be taken before delivery? needless to say 90% take break at end,an example encouraged by the AR-surely he should be setting an example etc

If you don't mind me saying so Dan...your Area Rep is an idiot.
Encouraging members to work an entire shift with no break is about as dumb as it gets,it contributes to long term health problems and stress and even from a business point of view it's inefficient.
Properly rested staff are more productive both mentally and physically,that's a pretty well publicised fact.

[Danelectro]

Fish I thought its part of BT2010 that a break must be taken before delivery? needless to say 90% take break at end,an example encouraged by the AR-surely he should be setting an example etc

If you don't mind me saying so Dan...your Area Rep is an idiot.
Encouraging members to work an entire shift with no break is about as dumb as it gets,it contributes to long term health problems and stress and even from a business point of view it's inefficient.
Properly rested staff are more productive both mentally and physically,that's a pretty well publicised fact.

correct fish..hes not all bad though and does well at stage 3s etc...but we often hear about rogue doms but there are rogue ARs agreeing to dumb ass bad practice.Been asking for a meeting to discuss several issues one of which I might PM you about this week regarding some apparent Scottish meeting,I need to be sure im in the right before proceeding etc.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

the working time directive states that a minimum 20 minutes must be taken as near as reasonably possible to the middle of your working day

It doesn't state "near as reasonably possible" in the working time directive

[fishtank]

the working time directive states that a minimum 20 minutes must be taken as near as reasonably possible to the middle of your working day

It doesn't state "near as reasonably possible" in the working time directive

Sorry zx,didn't realise you had your pedantic head on.
What i should have said was that the guidance issued by the Department of Business,Industry and Skills to employers on how to apply and comply with the Working Time Directive states that it cannot be taken at the beginning or the end and the guidance given to employees by the Government through it's DirectGov website states that The requirements are:
the break must be in one block it cannot be taken off one end of the working day - it must be somewhere in the middle.
Both sets of guidance being accepted as standard at Employment Tribunals.

All of which is immaterial because the Working Time Directive actually does state that....

(2) The details of the rest break to which an adult worker is entitled under paragraph (1), including its duration and the terms on which it is granted, shall be in accordance with any provisions for the purposes of this regulation which are contained in a collective agreement or a workforce agreement.

And our Collective Agreement...The Way Forward states that...

Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

But thanks for picking up on that.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Reason for being pedantic is for those pt staff say on a 5hr day the dom can quite legitimately tell them to take their break 40 minutes in before they start their outdoor duty of 4hrs, if it did say near as reasonably possible then pt staff would have a better chance of insisting they get their break nearer the middle of their shift

[Onmyown]

So from ppls view im taking it that if somebody has a finish time of 3pm and finish at 3pm without any break they should only be able to book 20mins overtime.

[Onmyown]

Is the stuff about breaks in the way forward agreement still right or has it been updated? As that was back n 2000
Thanks

[fishtank]

Is the stuff about breaks in the way forward agreement still right or has it been updated? As that was back n 2000
Thanks

The Delivery Reps Support Pack for BT2010 actually quotes the entire meal breaks section word for word from the Way Forward...so yes it is still valid.

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