Cars on delivery

[rolf]

Can anyone tell me, are cars allowed still on delivery, I thought it was all stopped, we have guys taking their mail and big pa jets out on delivery with them, we also have a van for every 2 walks so,why the hell would you take your car.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

If your office has had its delivery methods revision then they are banned.

If you have and they are using them and want to stir up the hornets nest then a little email to moya will change things pretty rapidly

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Can anyone tell me, are cars allowed still on delivery, I thought it was all stopped, we have guys taking their mail and big pa jets out on delivery with them, we also have a van for every 2 walks so,why the hell would you take your car.

Officially NO - http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 15&t=46941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But there are a lot of managers who should be wearing this badge

But the would take a dim view as its doubtful that the PCODs are insured correctly.

[chrisj]

Vans do break down. And sometimes, people lose/misplace the damn keys... The issue will get worse because the vans will soon start to get old...

I am not saying that cars should be used but if it is the last resort and manager approves. It is better than hanging around for 40 minutes trying to find a van. Yes, we can cut off but it is not that easy of you have to come back to all the mess...

[dvbuk55]

Vans do break down. And sometimes, people lose/misplace the damn keys... The issue will get worse because the vans will soon start to get old...

I am not saying that cars should be used but if it is the last resort and manager approves. It is better than hanging around for 40 minutes trying to find a van. Yes, we can cut off but it is not that easy of you have to come back to all the mess...

The manager cannot approve a practice which goes against national guidelines once the DM revision is in place he cannot replace the insurance cover. It's not better than hanging round for 40 minutes, the mess is not yours to contend with but the managers - why would you do the managers job for him? If the "mess" was there the next day you'd leave even more.

[P13]

Vans do break down. And sometimes, people lose/misplace the damn keys... The issue will get worse because the vans will soon start to get old...

I am not saying that cars should be used but if it is the last resort and manager approves. It is better than hanging around for 40 minutes trying to find a van. Yes, we can cut off but it is not that easy of you have to come back to all the mess...

There is one flaw in your logic , it is almost certainly illegal and probably a conduct code issue

[Cut Off King]

Call the local police, If they are fully insured then they have nothing to worry about

However if they're not properly insured, then they have their ownselfs to blame...

After all, non insured drivers push up everybody's insurance costs.

[chrisj]

I don't want to argue but when people are so categorical about things and quote Unions and agreements and so on, I am often very sceptical.

I do not even think it is illegal. Can you let us see where it says so? And I think a lot of stuff has manager's discretion written over it... The Union are not exactly going to start kicking up a stink over this, are they?

All this talk about emailing Moya and getting the Union involved is all bluster. The Union are not that powerful and if they are more interested in protecting jobs than taking on the establishment they will (and do) turn a blind eye to certain things.

I do worry about the mess because I am at the bottom of the pile and mess/sh1t tend to gravitate towards the bottom but most importantly, I do need the job rather than aggro and fights. I am part of the bullied either from management or fellow posties and there is nothing the Union can do to help - I am a member.

[Hitcher]

It's illegal to have the mail in your car for starters but as long as you get to finish early it doesn't matter.

[dvbuk55]

Appeasement? Is that the answer? Chamberlain obviously thought so and look what happened. If you think you are being bullied then it is in your interest to get it sorted because to ignore it is not in your best interest. Anyone using a car thinking the "blind eye" is tacit acceptance is in for a very rude awakening if things go tits up. Could you show me where Managers discretion is written into the agreement on the non use of private cars after revision?

[DGP1]

I don't want to argue but when people are so categorical about things and quote Unions and agreements and so on, I am often very sceptical.

I do not even think it is illegal. Can you let us see where it says so? And I think a lot of stuff has manager's discretion written over it... The Union are not exactly going to start kicking up a stink over this, are they?

All this talk about emailing Moya and getting the Union involved is all bluster. The Union are not that powerful and if they are more interested in protecting jobs than taking on the establishment they will (and do) turn a blind eye to certain things.

I do worry about the mess because I am at the bottom of the pile and mess/sh1t tend to gravitate towards the bottom but most importantly, I do need the job rather than aggro and fights. I am part of the bullied either from management or fellow posties and there is nothing the Union can do to help - I am a member.

Look at your insurance documents and if it says that you can use it for your job (ie. delivery door to door) then you will have insurance for the road but if it only says 'for travel to and from your normal place of work' then you'll not be covered, either way, the mail won't be covered and if it gets 'lost' then you would probably end up getting sacked.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I don't want to argue but when people are so categorical about things and quote Unions and agreements and so on, I am often very sceptical.

I do not even think it is illegal. Can you let us see where it says so? And I think a lot of stuff has manager's discretion written over it...

It IS illegal you need commercial insurance and Royal Mails Bond if you read the LTB at http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 15&t=46941" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; it gives an example of what happened to one postie who didn't have the correct insurance.

The Postmen caught received a fixed penalty £300 fine for no commercial use insurance, 6 points on their Drivers Licence, their cars were seized at the roadside and impounded with a £115 tow away fee plus £15 per day storage and they had to pay for full Business Motor insurance before the Police would release their cars

The legal part is covered by this part of the LTB:

At that point all authorisations and insurance cover are withdrawn. It would therefore be a serious Conduct Code, disciplinary offence for the DOM and DSM to allow and encourage staff to continue using private cars on delivery, placing the individuals at risk, other road users at risk and the business vicariously liable.

As you can see from the quote - there is no managers discretion at all. Its a simple case of the bond is removed, and authorisation is removed by Royal Mail. If Managers ignore continued use of PCODs then its possible (though unlikely) in the worst of circumstances they could be done for Corporate Manslaughter

Under corporate killing legislation it is now easier for Royal Mail to be punished with unlimited fines and even jail for gross negligence manslaughter.

The Union are not exactly going to start kicking up a stink over this, are they?

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 18&t=47505" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; thats an LTB - not quite kicking up a fuss but they are worried about their members making a wrong choice.

[speedypostman]

I don't want to argue but when people are so categorical about things and quote Unions and agreements and so on, I am often very sceptical.

I do not even think it is illegal. Can you let us see where it says so? And I think a lot of stuff has manager's discretion written over it... The Union are not exactly going to start kicking up a stink over this, are they?

All this talk about emailing Moya and getting the Union involved is all bluster. The Union are not that powerful and if they are more interested in protecting jobs than taking on the establishment they will (and do) turn a blind eye to certain things.

I do worry about the mess because I am at the bottom of the pile and mess/sh1t tend to gravitate towards the bottom but most importantly, I do need the job rather than aggro and fights. I am part of the bullied either from management or fellow posties and there is nothing the Union can do to help - I am a member.

All well, but when you get stopped by the old bill with mail, packets and no proper insurance for carrying all that, see if your DOM and RM intead back you up at the station and you should be more than lucky to have a job to go back to.

[Richard007]

Why the hell would anyone want to use their own car , petrol , wear & tear insurance , total mugs the basic pay is way to low to waste hard earned cash .

[krussel]

Its very simple. Phone your insurance company and explain exactly what you want to carry in your private car (ie mail, packets, registered mail etc) and ask for a policy to suit

See how far you get before they tell you that you are un-insured