signing for a van

[jeanie]

under the p&l system, when you sign for a van and both driver and non driver are having a set of keys to use the van as a drop point, why is it only the driver that signs for both sets of keys?? Is is just the driver that is responsible for both sets of keys and is his responsibility if the non driver loses there keys or forgets to lock the van?? Or am I being fed bull???

[Patrick Clifton]

under the p&l system, when you sign for a van and both driver and non driver are having a set of keys to use the van as a drop point, why is it only the driver that signs for both sets of keys?? Is is just the driver that is responsible for both sets of keys and is his responsibility if the non driver loses there keys or forgets to lock the van?? Or am I being fed bull???

The non-driver has responsibilities too

[fishtank]

why is it only the driver that signs for both sets of keys?? Is is just the driver that is responsible for both sets of keys and is his responsibility if the non driver loses there keys or forgets to lock the van?? Or am I being fed bull???

Shared vans: vehicle accountability

Principles of Shared Van working

• Typically one of the shared van pair is nominated as the driver each day to minimize inefficiency as a result of driver changes during the duty
• A set of keys may be held by both OPGs within the pair

Driver Responsibility
While using shared vans, drivers must follow instructions (contained in the Overnight Retention of Vehicles policy, located on the 6 phase intranet site) by completing the logbook as described. Under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 Royal Mail has a legal obligation to provide, when required, details on the identity of any driver using a vehicle at a particular time. In order to fulfil this obligation, the Vehicle Condition & Mileage Logbook (the logbook) will be used as the primary day-to-day control record.

For the purposes of the Road Traffic Act 1988, the driver whose name is last recorded in the logbook will be considered responsible for the roadworthiness and security of the vehicle until responsibility is transferred to the next driver by signature in the logbook. Only the driver whose name is recorded in the logbook may drive the vehicle until responsibility is transferred. Subsequent drivers must carry out at least a “duty” level (roadworthiness) vehicle check before driving and the vehicle logbook must be completed in line with the example used in the Overnight Retention of Vehicles Policy, located in the 6 phase intranet site).

Drivers must be able to provide a detailed and accurate record of vehicle transfer between themselves and another driver/s via the logbook.

It is a very serious offence to drive a vehicle without the appropriate driving licence and necessary permission. Any breach of this condition will be treated under the Royal Mail Conduct Code.

Key Holders
Shared van working will work best if both employees sharing the vehicle have key access to the mail compartment so as to minimize waiting time at the van.

Key control processes therefore need to be communicated to employees, and managed, more effectively than ever before.

All sets of vehicle keys must be signed for, i.e.: where two sets of keys are used on a shared van duty then both OPGs must sign separately for each set. The person signing for keys will be considered responsible for their security until responsibility is transferred and details have been recorded on the local office key control record.

Managers must periodically confirm availability of all sets of keys issued for any shared vehicle under their control. Checks should be carried out at the same time as licence checks are conducted (whether the subsequent key holder has a driving licence or not).

When not in use, all vehicle keys must be kept on the person at all times - they must never be left in the vehicle or in any delivery trolley or delivery pouch.

Responsibility for the security of any mail left on board a vehicle which is unattended will be shared jointly between any key holders working from the vehicle. Mail left in unattended vehicles must always be secured within the load area.

Failure to adhere to these principles may lead to disciplinary action being taken under the Conduct Code and could result in dismissal.

[jeanie]

Thanks for that fishtank, so even though my partner cannot drive, he can have a set of keys so he can get his mail out if im not there, he signs for his own set of keys and take responsibility for them and to lock van???????

[jeanie]

It seems to me that the driver takes on more responsibility than the non driver and yet get paid the same!!! Ive been told also that only one of you signs for tracked and specials, so if my partner loses a special then I get the blame!!!

[Patrick Clifton]

Thanks for that fishtank, so even though my partner cannot drive, he can have a set of keys so he can get his mail out if im not there, he signs for his own set of keys and take responsibility for them and to lock van???????

Yes

It seems to me that the driver takes on more responsibility than the non driver and yet get paid the same!!!

How so? Other than the driver being held responsible for a blameworthy road accident, I cannot see much less responsibility for the non-driver.

Ive been told also that only one of you signs for tracked and specials, so if my partner loses a special then I get the blame!!!

We have never signed for Tracked in my office.

We initially signed for our own specials that we were going to deliver, but this seemed to cause problems with the locker and wasted time. The process was changed so that the driver and non-driver both signed for the specials for the duties they were going to be delivering.

[Pat Ostman]

It seems to me that the driver takes on more responsibility than the non driver and yet get paid the same!!! Ive been told also that only one of you signs for tracked and specials, so if my partner loses a special then I get the blame!!!

Well dont drive for them them.

[jeanie]

I did say I didn't want a driving duty but I know through experience that you have to be one step ahead!! So what im doing is cos we are starting the 6 wk pre resign period before we go live with this new way of working i would rather be the driver than like others taken off there duty and put on a crap one for the sake of 6 wks driving. Then when it comes to th resign I can sign for one that is a non driver, this all depends on what dutys are going when it gets to me im quite high up so im hoping there will be a good one that isnt a driving duty. In saying that I would rather drive and be on a nice duty than a none driver on a shite one. I feel I have the right to pick and choose. I dont check my own car, tyres, oil etc I take it to a garage and they do it so checking the van, well, im not mechanical minded and forgot what aa told me bout 2 yrs ago.

[Pat Ostman]

Sorry must have missed in this thread where you proclaimed you didn't want to be a driver.

[Patrick Clifton]

I did say I didn't want a driving duty but I know through experience that you have to be one step ahead!! So what im doing is cos we are starting the 6 wk pre resign period before we go live with this new way of working i would rather be the driver than like others taken off there duty and put on a crap one for the sake of 6 wks driving. Then when it comes to th resign I can sign for one that is a non driver, this all depends on what dutys are going when it gets to me im quite high up so im hoping there will be a good one that isnt a driving duty. In saying that I would rather drive and be on a nice duty than a none driver on a shite one. I feel I have the right to pick and choose. I dont check my own car, tyres, oil etc I take it to a garage and they do it so checking the van, well, im not mechanical minded and forgot what aa told me bout 2 yrs ago.

Our lot got warned that if they were a driver, and more so if they were RM assessed driver, they would get moved for 'operational needs' if they signed for a non-driving duty.

I think you're taking the van checks a little to far. Do you take your car to the garage when its time to check the tyre pressure incase the tyres need some air?

[jeanie]

I meant the tyre tread, tyres just get changed when mot or service, I don't look at my tyres and think they look a bit bold i'll go and have new ones on. Anything in the engine, oil, break fluid, screen wash I don't touch, garage do that.

[jeanie]

Are they petrol or diesel??? No doubt I would get in trouble for putting the wrong fuel in too.

[Patrick Clifton]

I meant the tyre tread, tyres just get changed when mot or service, I don't look at my tyres and think they look a bit bold i'll go and have new ones on. Anything in the engine, oil, break fluid, screen wash I don't touch, garage do that.

A knowledge of basic car maintenance is now part of the driving test. If you were unable, as you claim you are, to show the required knoweledge, you would not pass your driving test at todays standards.

[fishtank]

Your Work Place Coach should be able to take you through the weekly and duty level van checks.
That's what they get the £30 for.

[jeanie]

Good job I passed it nearly 30 yrs ago then. No written test either in them days