repick time - Part timers picking ahead of seniority -

[mandelsons_toenail]

Ok

The boys have gone mental

The dom has said he wants our new jobs to be advertised as FT or PT before they go up for pick.

This means that junior PT staff will have a duty and some FT staff who are senior to them will not.

Ive spoken to different union bods and they have all given different answers.

i cant see why there isnt a ruling in place here, its pathetic,

Seniority is seniority right!

Here is a scenario - SHARED VAN, 9 DAY FORTNIGHT, 3 duty sets and a DAY OFF COVER

DUTY ( SHARED VANS )

1 is PT paired with 2 FT
3 is PT paired with 4 FT
5 is PT paired with 5 FT

Day off cover men ( FT+PTer)

seniority list
1 tommy FT
2 JONNY FT
3 ALICE PT
4 PAUL FT
5 KEV FT
6 JIM FT
7 CHRIS FT
8 PENNY FT
9 DEBBIE PT
10 SHANE FT
11 MAX PT
12 SAM FT
13 LEE PT

Now there are only 4 FT pos and 4 PT here, with the dom idea.

so

1 tommy FT PICKS 2 DUTY
2 JONNY FT PICKS 4 DUTY
3 ALICE PT PICKS 1 DUTY
4 PAUL FT PICKS 6 DUTY
5 KEV FT PICKS DAY OFF COVER FT
6 JIM FT - NO JOB TO PICK - SO BECOMES RESERVE
7 CHRIS FT - NO JOB TO PICK - SO BECOMES RESERVE
8 PENNY PT - PICKS 3 DUTY
9 DEBBIE PT - PICKS 5 DUTY
10 SHANE FT - NO JOB TO PICK - SO BECOMES RESERVE
11 MAX PT - PICKS DAY OFF COVER PT
12 SAM FT - RESERVE
13 LEE PT - RESERVE

as you can see non senior men are getting their own duties.

thoughts?

apologies above the simplicity of the above

reality is more sets but the theory stays the same

[Pat Ostman]

I do not see a problem if the Full Time bods can pick into a Part Time duty but lose the hours. Thats a seniority based re-pick. Remember seniority has nothing to do with contracted hours, only the time served.

So, as in your example, they get to 'choose' first. In your example they declined the loss of hours and possible duty pick and opted to retain their hours and become a reserve. Are you suggesting that full or part time people can choose their own deliveries plus the amount of time they work? I'm afraid it no longer, if ever, works like that.

That many reserves though? That is certainly a weird setup.

[mandelsons_toenail]

No my office has 100 staff

That was a small example of how it will be in repick

So your saying it's ok to be a reserve even if your senior?

All our spans are the same

Ft and pt can share vans

Seems highly unfair to us

[Pat Ostman]

Yes it is fair as they have the option of picking into the part time delivery. Do they want a delivery more than full time hours or do they want their hours more? The main thing is that the more senior you are determines who gets to make that choice first. Non Drivers v Drivers shakes it up a bit as well. If the more senior bod cannot drive they might lose a spot or two over less senior drivers. Contracted hours are the same.

Now the problem is, during these repicks it's probable that the more cushy rounds have been identified and demoted to part time hours. This creates a problem as the more senior bods will have their eyes on them. Sadly though, to pick these deliveries they'll have to drop hours as all the rounds have allocated prep and delivery times and it's difficult to swop and change them again to suit the bods. After all this is a massive cash saving exercise and one they'll unlikely to muck about with to suit us.

So along comes that not so senior bod who picks into a delivery that the more seniors have been avoiding and walks away smiling. That's life, thank the runners and people who come in early.

That's my understanding of it. I might well be wrong.

[mandelsons_toenail]

All our rounds are now equal and achievable

9 day f night shared vans 435 spans
9 day f night rurals 515 spans

Et voila

[shepherdess]

if all walks are equal i.e 4.10 then pick on seniority and full time staff throw in the part time duties. i.e full timers on the primary the rest throwing floater duties in so when they come in covering the days off they only have the delivery side of it and not the primary / prep/ delivery

[Patrick Clifton]

I think the pt duties need to be decided beforehand.

Remember, you also have to consider driver and non-driver duties. If you allowed it a free-for-all, you could end up with a scenario of 2 ptimers being paired together. Who is going to prep their jobs? Or 2 non-drivers being paired.

[mandelsons_toenail]

if all walks are equal i.e 4.10 then pick on seniority and full time staff throw in the part time duties. i.e full timers on the primary the rest throwing floater duties in so when they come in covering the days off they only have the delivery side of it and not the primary / prep/ delivery

but in that case the PT staff ( the majority ) would not have there own duty anyway as the ft staff would have them all and the pt ers would mainly be reserves, not even day off cover dudes

Even myself, I will be outdone by a junior PT er as by the time it gets to me, there will only be MAYBE a day off cover job or ill be a reserve with 10 years service.

The plans are as follows

25 rural ft duties + day off covers
2 firms duties 1 FT 1 PT+doc
1 town centre HCT FT job+doc
2 FT cycle deliveries
1 PT cycle delivery= doc

9 sets of shared van jobs
FT with PT x 6 + 2 ft/pt day off men
FT with FT x 3 + 1 ft/ft day off men

or there abouts

which means tough luck for some, happy days for others,

a non driver cannot pick with a non driver. If there is only a driver job left and you cant drive then tough you become a reserve. No PT/PT combinations are allowed in shared vans.


seniority has gone

roll on the walkout

[fishtank]

If you allowed it a free-for-all, you could end up with a scenario of 2 ptimers being paired together. Who is going to prep their jobs?.

The same full-timers who will have to prep their jobs no matter what duty they pick.
Indoor work is indoor work,it doesn't matter which duty a part-timer picks the indoor work will still have to be done.
If the jobs are the same outdoor the only relevant issue is that every pair needs a driver,contracted hours should be completely irrelevant in a repick where the outdoor content is identical.

[mandelsons_toenail]

If you allowed it a free-for-all, you could end up with a scenario of 2 ptimers being paired together. Who is going to prep their jobs?.

The same full-timers who will have to prep their jobs no matter what duty they pick.
Indoor work is indoor work,it doesn't matter which duty a part-timer picks the indoor work will still have to be done.
If the jobs are the same outdoor the only relevant issue is that every pair needs a driver,contracted hours should be completely irrelevant in a repick where the outdoor content is identical.

So whats my solution?

set 1

ft + ft
ft + ft
ft + ft
plus ft+ft day off cover

set 2

ft + ft
ft + ft
ft + ft
plus ft+ft day off cover

set 3

pt + pt
pt + pt
pt + pt
plus pt+pt day off cover?

run the part timers on their own repick?

to me it would be odd prepping some/all of a delivery that i have no involvement in.

[obscurityknocks]

If all the spans outdoors are the same then surely a re-pick is done from top to bottom on list and you add the indoor content afterwards. As long as each cdv has a driver whether ft or pt.

[mandelsons_toenail]

the only problem according to my dom is total office hours

repick on seniority would make all but 3 of the pt ers reserves, they wouldnt do ft duties on cover so wouldnt have a job?

f**k knows its not fair and the union arent helping me one bit

what the hell do other offices do

[enzio]

think your self lucky you are having a resign we have not had one and its been nearly 2 years since we went park and loop

[sad]

think your self lucky you are having a resign we have not had one and its been nearly 2 years since we went park and loop

were do you work ?

[fishtank]

the only problem according to my dom is total office hours

repick on seniority would make all but 3 of the pt ers reserves, they wouldnt do ft duties on cover so wouldnt have a job?

f**k knows its not fair and the union arent helping me one bit

what the hell do other offices do

I'm surprised that your Dom is not beside himself with excitement at the thought of using part-time reserves to cover full-time positions.
It's a savings bonanza because all he does is cover the outdoor element with the part-timer and absorb the indoor element by lifting someone from the never ending resource of the IPS to prep the duty.
It's a lot easier for him than having a full-time reserve cover a part-time duty and trying to justify the increase in indoor hours.