Trade Union

[CORTINA]

You have to question yourself as to why you are paying every week into your union....

Most will say that are not worth anything and now have very bad reputation in achieving any notable benefit at talks in major disputes.....

Work loads have increased without consoultation in many cases depots run on a do what you can.... daily basis

What was achievable is now...maybe, depends on whatever, no chance today we got out late, not more sickness etc etc...

At what point do the union step in to rectify or have talks about these problems.... many are walks to long related..... uncheiveable on heavy and bad weather days

Are we getting value for money to assist and help us do our daily tasks....

If not, why like lemmings are we wasting our hard earned money, paying some union officials wages to be better off thay many posties who pay into the system.....

Is it time to put your union subs into your bank account....£150 - £300 a year

Food for Thought...... Times have changed ..are we getting ripped off...?

[somerset]

[quote="Is it time to put your union subs into your bank account....£150 - £300 a year

Where do you get the figure £300 a year from ? I pay £3.33p a week for full membership. And being in the union is a bit like having an insurance policy. Try standing on your own two feet when management have got you on something ?

[General Mannerheim]

It's an insurance policy.

Try telling the many people who get sacked and are unrepresented when it comes to a tribunal by our caring Union because it's worried about cost.

[CORTINA]

[quote="Is it time to put your union subs into your bank account....£150 - £300 a year

Where do you get the figure £300 a year from ? I pay £3.33p a week for full membership. And being in the union is a bit like having an insurance policy. Try standing on your own two feet when management have got you on something ?

Read post correctly...it says £150 - £300....

IN Your case ...£3.33 a week is £173 per year...10 years at same £1730.00p and 25 years £4325.00..... mulitply these figures by countless thousands paying in.... with just 100,000 members thats £17 million a year at your rate.

Most are fed up with their hassle in the job the past 5 years...The union could have change some on it.... The TUC are even worse.... never hear from or about them month after month....or in the media.... part time workers getting shafted everywhere ..were are they... Tax Avoidance from those above us... not a sausage from the TUC about that....

And you say its an insurrance policy...does is always pay out..?.... are they always there when needed.... why is morale so low and that managment create pressure by poor decisions .... and where are the union to ensure achievable walks in all conditions with respectable targets and realistic limits..... our areas repps even agreed saturday 2pm finish... those with football season tickets no chance to enjoy their chosen sport... the best we could do ...was the answer.... Best you you do better or get another job some told them.

Regarding standing on your own feet .... many need to start walking to union meetings and demand better service, instead of walking home or not turning up..... many are the workforces own enemy... demand a better deal for your subs paid.

[Judgee]

For me it's worth paying it for the help my rep gives me at a local level.

If the only benefit I received was from representation at a national level then I wouldn't bother. The union leadership at the highest level are complete shite. They are out of touch and lack the balls to do anything to help the membership.

One has to question just what chunky Dave and co actually do for thier £90k a year salaries. All they do is sit around agreeing with RM management... hardly taxing stuff is it?

[whisperstar24]

i am a rep,i dont get payed for doing it but i do it because i want to help those people around me that are increasingly under pressure and threats from management.
let me suggest that your pay increases every year with the unions help,your hours have reduced from 43 hours down to 39 hrs.You have legal help when you have an accident at work and deserve compensation.You have support when you get into conduct issues.You have health and safety upheld as best as we can in your interest.You have a chance to have your voice heard in a democratic way.You have a sense of fairness upheld in an environment where management would like to chose who they put into jobs and who gets the overtime.
You need a good local rep around you i agree but that is not always easy as for national negotiations ,yes its an uphill struggle but lets look at the tnt model and look to the future and this union is doing the best it can at grass roots level

[fishtank]

It's fine talking about past or even present achievements but if you want to take the credit for that and i agree that the union has achieved a great deal over the years,you have to also be man enough to take responsibility for your failures and there has been too many of those lately.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what reps or officials think of the union,it's all down to the members perception and at the moment,whether you believe the union is doing the best it can or not....that perception is rock bottom.

We are at the moment getting the message to members all wrong,too many joint communications,too much Moya said this and Moya said that and not enough listening to members.The members now have the impression that we are a staff association in everything but name and the kicker is staff associations are usually free.

There is a real issue in offices that have poor representation and branches that are.... under-performing,it's ok saying change the rep or branch officials but that can be difficult and time consuming and relies on a level of fair democratic process that isn't always apparent certainly at branch level and also sadly in some local units.
The worrying thing is the harder it becomes to change the system,and it is becoming harder....... the easier it becomes to phone HR and cancel your subs.

[silly suffolk]

the constant criticism of the cwu and the leadership seems to imply that other unions are leading their membership to shangri la in this present time. their not. i am not saying the cwu are perfect. their not, but without them in the workplace we would all be in a world of much more pain, and any one who believes other wise is mistaken. and people who look forward to the demise of the cwu are in for a rude awakening.

[fishtank]

I don't think it's enough to blame the current climate,talk about what might or might not happen without the CWU or look at other unions.
I think it's a very dangerous path you tread when you fail to communicate with,engage,connect or organise your membership and then trot out the same tired,old sound bites the members have been hearing for years.

The members on the whole aren't looking for a return to the 70's or massive pay rises,their expectations are moulded by the circumstances they see around them but what they do want is a feeling that they are part of something strong,something independent from the employer,something that can defend their jobs,terms and conditions both individually and collectively.
That is not the message they are receiving at the moment.

The constant criticism of the CWU and the leadership only implies one thing...the members aren't happy and it doesn't matter to the bottom line whether that unhappiness is justified because of the wrong direction the union is taking or justified because the union is failing to get it's message across the end result is the same...unhappy members leaving the union.

Are we heading off in the wrong direction or are we heading off in the right direction but leaving the members behind?
That's the big decision facing the union right now and there is no third option of sticking your head in the sand.

[silly suffolk]

I don't think it's enough to blame the current climate,talk about what might or might not happen without the CWU or look at other unions.
I think it's a very dangerous path you tread when you fail to communicate with,engage,connect or organise your membership and then trot out the same tired,old sound bites the members have been hearing for years.

The members on the whole aren't looking for a return to the 70's or massive pay rises,their expectations are moulded by the circumstances they see around them but what they do want is a feeling that they are part of something strong,something independent from the employer,something that can defend their jobs,terms and conditions both individually and collectively.
That is not the message they are receiving at the moment.

The constant criticism of the CWU and the leadership only implies one thing...the members aren't happy and it doesn't matter to the bottom line whether that unhappiness is justified because of the wrong direction the union is taking or justified because the union is failing to get it's message across the end result is the same...unhappy members leaving the union.

Are we heading off in the wrong direction or are we heading off in the right direction but leaving the members behind?
That's the big decision facing the union right now and there is no third option of sticking your head in the sand.

well i expect the vociferous anti union brigade on this site will see the day sooner rather than later when the cwu is completely emasculated. then we can compare notes on which period of time we preferred to be postman in.

[fishtank]

well i expect the vociferous anti union brigade on this site will see the day sooner rather than later when the cwu is completely emasculated. then we can compare notes on which period of time we preferred to be postman in.

I don't think there is an anti-union brigade on this site suffolk,
I can't even remember the last time i saw an actual anti-trade union post,probably during the strikes in 2009.

You don't have to oppose something to criticise it,sometimes it just means you can see it's potential to be be so much more...or sadly and more importantly you can see it's potential for self-destruction and you would like to avoid that at all costs because you are well aware of what life without a strong,independent union will be like.

As for the complete emasculation of the union...will that be the fault of those who openly criticised it's failings at a time when something could have been done...or the fault of those who fiddled while Rome burned beneath their feet.

[silly suffolk]

well i expect the vociferous anti union brigade on this site will see the day sooner rather than later when the cwu is completely emasculated. then we can compare notes on which period of time we preferred to be postman in.

I don't think there is an anti-union brigade on this site suffolk,
I can't even remember the last time i saw an actual anti-trade union post,probably during the strikes in 2009.

You don't have to oppose something to criticise it,sometimes it just means you can see it's potential to be be so much more...or sadly and more importantly you can see it's potential for self-destruction and you would like to avoid that at all costs because you are well aware of what life without a strong,independent union will be like.

As for the complete emasculation of the union...will that be the fault of those who openly criticised it's failings at a time when something could have been done...or the fault of those who fiddled while Rome burned beneath their feet.

constructive criticism would help the cwu improve, i have misgivings over full time release for area reps and up, and elections for national figures seem as rare as hens teeth,but stupid remarks about greggs ect are a bit embarrassing , and when you compare the salary's of our union officials to minor league managers within rm they are not massive, although id like it. to many people read the sun/daily mail and believe all union officials are the devil incarnate, i think we only need to look to the city of london and the like to see where the real villains are.

[Judgee]

"well i expect the vociferous anti union brigade on this site will see the day sooner rather than later when the cwu is completely emasculated. then we can compare notes on which period of time we preferred to be postman in."


No ones saying we'd be better off without a union. I am sure most people on this board realise that without any union at all we would be completely screwed. But that doesn't mean people are happy to accept a union that is falling so short on such a regular basis!

I also do not agree that they are failing inline with other major unions, many of whom have achieved/protected far more for thier members than the CWU!

All the agreements the CWU have "negotiated" in recent years were very poor and the few little saving graces they did manage to get accepted, they allowed the RM to completely ignore!

[sheff postie]

"All the agreements the CWU have "negotiated" in recent years were very poor and the few little saving graces they did manage to get accepted, they allowed the RM to completely ignore!

I think we have got to ask why the membership are voting for these poor agreements, too many people in my opinion look at the £400 bribe and accept what ever else is in the agreement. If we all took the time to read what is proposed in the agreements and ignored the payments upon ratification we would be in a lot better position. It would also help if HQ stopped allowing RM to put them into the agreements.

[fishtank]

I think we have got to ask why the membership are voting for these poor agreements, too many people in my opinion look at the £400 bribe and accept what ever else is in the agreement. If we all took the time to read what is proposed in the agreements and ignored the payments upon ratification we would be in a lot better position. It would also help if HQ stopped allowing RM to put them into the agreements.

I think the money does have some effect but not as much as most people think,i think the main drivers behind the acceptance of poor agreements are member apathy,a deliberate lack of clarity or "clouding" of any controversial points in agreements and the lack of any visible alternative.

Even without the bribes the membership would have accepted BT2010 because...

a) Some of them didn't give a s**t and really didn't want to be out on strike in the first place.

b) A lot of members didn't get to read the agreement or didn't understand the agreement or were told a pack of lies about the agreement by both management and certain sections of the union.

c) After 4 months of talks and more or less being told by HQ that there was no plan b,a lot of members felt that if the deal was rejected we were heading down a blind alley.

d) Some members actually believed it was a good agreement.