Van sharing and delivery methods revision - seniority?

[mandelsons_toenail]

Ok

We are about to create our new duties

Current delivery spans for towns are 4 hours letter to letter for 5 day week, 9 day fortnight and 10 hour days

The rest is made up of ips prep etc

Rural spans vary depending on 5 day week or 9 day fortnight

We have approx 50 deliveries and maybe 100 staff or so on various jobs

Going forward the entire office wants 9 day fortnights as a duty set

Ok. Currently we have some pt jobs although the spans are identical to ft jobs - ips

So in our repick I'd like it solely done on seniority, this may displace some pt staff from their own duties as in the last repick our rep allowed these jobs to be in their own pt list so some senior ft men above these in seniority list were only cover men or even reserves.

My Dom says I must nominate pt jobs and ft jobs for two lists

I say this will destroy seniority. I have no issues if a pt worker is higher in the list and gets a duty, but I don't want this fiasco where a junior gets a duty.

Dom says there isn't enough hours in office to use full seniority!

We aren't cutting any delivery jobs out, there maybe a rural at risk and a locker cover job if any

Where do I go? Union not being too helpful.. I have no issues with ft/pt in a van, we are also keeping a couple of cycles due to areas.

Help.

10 year senior men will be cover men and reserves and the way it's looking 4 year pt men will have their own duty

[skull]

We had three repick lists, which list you picked into depended on your contracted hours. It's impossible to rigidly stick to seniority regarding the park and loop duties because you would end up with two none drivers working together. Seniority was demoted to third place behind contracted hours and skills.

[fishtank]

We had three repick lists, which list you picked into depended on your contracted hours. It's impossible to rigidly stick to seniority regarding the park and loop duties because you would end up with two none drivers working together. Seniority was demoted to third place behind contracted hours and skills.

I can see the argument for setting aside 50% of the park&loop duties for drivers.
I can't see the argument for having a separate list for part-timers if the outdoor element is identical.
This just smacks of laziness on the part of management to me.

[abraham]

We had three repick lists, which list you picked into depended on your contracted hours. It's impossible to rigidly stick to seniority regarding the park and loop duties because you would end up with two none drivers working together. Seniority was demoted to third place behind contracted hours and skills.

I can see the argument for setting aside 50% of the park&loop duties for drivers.
I can't see the argument for having a separate list for part-timers if the outdoor element is identical.
This just smacks of laziness on the part of management to me.

I don't think it means seniority is third. Seniority is still used but the choices available to each person are made clearer in this system, you still start with number 1 but if he picks passenger in park and lop van A then number 2 on the seniority list can't pick the driver in van A if he doesn't drive. The senior part timer would pick into his 'list', the office needed to decide before the repick if it is an outdoor only repick and the shuffling the indoor round to fit.

Not sure what skills has to with it. That is dealt with under The Way Forward. Again number 1 senior man can't pick PHG if he has no skills, if number 23 on the list gets PHG then he is to all intents number 1 on that list which would be Way Forward compliant.

[skull]

I can see the argument for setting aside 50% of the park&loop duties for drivers.
I can't see the argument for having a separate list for part-timers if the outdoor element is identical.
This just smacks of laziness on the part of management to me.

I can't think of a reason why duties were pigeonholed into different repick lists.

[Stormproof]

When I done our resign we never had a seperate list for FT/PT. It was done purely on seniority. Should'nt make much difference as most of the P/Timers don't do the indoor element. The only duties we had to set aside were FF and DDA.

[clashcityrocker]

The argument for reserving some duties for p/t was to ensure they didn't get left with the dregs of the duties in the office. This was to try and halt the high turnover in staff.
If the revision has been done properly all duties should be equally dreadful so there should no longer be a reason to reserve some duties.

Also, all reserves will need to be drivers under park and loop.
So beware of any manager offering first pick to drivers. Being a driver may get you a reserve duty whereas being a walker may get you a duty.......

[Himaggen]

Ok

We are about to create our new duties

Current delivery spans for towns are 4 hours letter to letter for 5 day week, 9 day fortnight and 10 hour days

The rest is made up of ips prep etc

Rural spans vary depending on 5 day week or 9 day fortnight

Just bear in mind that the span is no longer the objective/target for defining revisions. (The span indicator tool has been removed)
For more information see here.

[mandelsons_toenail]

Yeah it's an enabler

I don't see how that helps me here?

[heckster]

my manager has been trying to say even the passenger in the van must have a licence. surely not right .

[mandelsons_toenail]

No he's wrong

[Patrick Clifton]

P/t seems to cause more problems than its worth tbh. Maybe I/we are lucky that in my office we only have a couple of p/t duties. Seemingly when they have advertised for p/t positions, the uptake is very sparse

[skull]

my manager has been trying to say even the passenger in the van must have a licence. surely not right .

Our P&L none drivers can't even sign for and collect the van keys. If they are set up first they can't even get the keys to start loading the van, which creates even more down time. Once the driver has signed for the keys the none driver is then promoted and allowed to operate the van doors.

[Himaggen]

Our P&L none drivers can't even sign for and collect the van keys. If they are set up first they can't even get the keys to start loading the van, which creates even more down time.

Are you serious!

The down time is actually caused by your failure to help your van driving partner to set up, not by your inability to get the keys!

[skull]

Seriously, if the none drivers are set up first they are not considered competent to sign for the van keys and load it. Efficiency improves when we get out though, they are allowed to open and lock the doors by themselves. They are also allowed to sit in the front of the van unattended and fasten their own seatbelt.