getting grief for being older.

[wheresourmoney]

Hi everyone, we have a lad at work who, because he is older (61) than his loop partner(24) is being harrased by our dom for not keeping up with his partner, his loop partner has not informed on him, acording to the union they were being watched by managment,i read on this site recently that royal mail have finally excepted the fact that being older does make you slower than someone younger,trouble is i cant find where that info came from does anyone have any idea where i can get a copy (if one exists). Many thanks

[keithposty]

simple answer to this

it does not matter if some one is an olympic athlete or 60 years old

we all operate to the

PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AGREEMENT

tell your dom you want the walk tested to the agreement and watch him crawl back under the rock he came from

[glenfiddich]

this might help http://www.ageuk.org.uk/work-and-learni ... is-ageism/

[Royal_Fail]

Could swap this scenario round for a couple in my office old timer is always back to van first and waiting for young lad and heres the best part the old timer happily drops the new lad in it,old timer gets paid OT new lad gets told to hurry up.

[fishtank]

simple answer to this

it does not matter if some one is an olympic athlete or 60 years old

we all operate to the

PERFORMANCE STANDARDS AGREEMENT

tell your dom you want the walk tested to the agreement and watch him crawl back under the rock he came from

It would appear that this is an outdoor problem.
There is no agreed individual performance standards for outdoor work.
Testing the walk would be counter-productive,pointless and dangerous from the member's point of view.

[keithposty]

i agree but all the walks are suppose to be equal now, thats the indoor elemant as well as the delivery span

balanced work load, all working at the same pace, geo route has optimised everything so how do you counter a collegue running around like a marine and your partner doing the job correct

(please dont laugh on the above statement)

the person doing it correct will be bullied by a manager stating he is not fast enough

its allright saying do not test the walk but what other options are their

[fishtank]

its allright saying do not test the walk but what other options are their

Since there is no agreed outdoor performance standard it is not a performance issue so what benefit would it be to the member to test the walk?
All that may do is give management the confidence to pursue a possible NCI line with the member.
Since management have no agreed procedure,measurement scale or standard to apply it is simply a case of harassment of a member and should be treated as such....with a grievance or an H1 form if appropriate.
Walk testing is exactly what it says....testing the walk...and it should never be used to measure anybody's performance even if you think it will come out in your favour....it's way too dangerous a game.

[keithposty]

quote

Since there is no agreed outdoor performance standard


but the cwu has agreed geo route, walk speeds, call rates etc etc

i dont mean to keep going on with this but i may have to represent a member on a performance issue in line with this sinario and i want to have all the answers at my disposal

[fishtank]

Since there is no agreed outdoor performance standard but the cwu has agreed geo route, walk speeds, call rates etc etc

i dont mean to keep going on with this but i may have to represent a member on a performance issue in line with this sinario and i want to have all the answers at my disposal

Geo-route,the IWT,call rates,whatever BSI you agree,attendance call rates and walk speeds are all office resourcing tools.
None of them have been agreed or can be used as individual performance measurement tools.
Most Line-managers will obviously try to apply them individually because rather than address the real problem which might involve some hard thinking time and possibly a mental breakdown they prefer to blame us.

[keithposty]

ok then, finally cracked it

we all know they are only resource tools and not performance measuring tools, but what cast iron case can i use in a disciplinary to counter act the management posistion

what can i sling in a managers face saying this is irrelevant to this hearing due to not being an agreed process

i am talking an official communication from either the cwu or rm

i do not want a manager to say "show me where i cant use this" process

[fishtank]

i do not want a manager to say "show me where i cant use this" process

It should be a case of you saying show me where it says you can.
Any agreed process has to have documented evidence.
A manager could say "Show me where it says i can't sack you for not working at X standard" and there will be no specific document that says he can't other than the overall agreement that we work within the jointly agreed collective agreements that we have.
That's why we have the IR Framework.

On the point of individual outdoor performance the BT2010 agreement states

Employees will have a range of abilities and capabilities and consideration should be given to individuals on this point in line with relevant legislation.

On the issue of indoor performance this should help.
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 11&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[keithposty]

thanks for the update

[dvbuk55]

On the point of individual outdoor performance the BT2010 agreement states

Employees will have a range of abilities and capabilities and consideration should be given to individuals on this point in line with relevant legislation.

On the issue of indoor performance this should help.
http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 11&start=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not quite sure what "in line with relevant legislation" means in this context, you would presume it means DDA because I don't know of any legislation to adjudicate between a fast or slow worker.

[R@YAL F@IL]

Hi everyone, we have a lad at work who, because he is older (61) than his loop partner(24) is being harrased by our dom for not keeping up with his partner, his loop partner has not informed on him, acording to the union they were being watched by managment,i read on this site recently that royal mail have finally excepted the fact that being older does make you slower than someone younger,trouble is i cant find where that info came from does anyone have any idea where i can get a copy (if one exists). Many thanks

Is it that you are NOT completing your duties on time?

[fishtank]

I'm not quite sure what "in line with relevant legislation" means in this context, you would presume it means DDA because I don't know of any legislation to adjudicate between a fast or slow worker.

It could cover disability,sex or age.all three or none of the above.
We did agree that this agreement's main weakness was it's vagueness DV.