Getting a stage while still absent

[strangler]

Hypothetical scenario: If I were off work for 3 months (90 days give or take) with stress, all certificated, etc, could RM issue me with a stage 1 warning in my absence? If so I`d like to know the following:

1-Is it not the case that you have to have a return to work before they can stage you?
2-If not, is there a set time after being off sick that they can stage you in your absence and if so what is it?
3-Couldn`t you argue that the act of issuing the stage could in itself could cause you further stress?
4-If they stage you and you continue to be off sick, assuming the stage 1 would have an 'end of sickness' date (crazy in itself if you`re still off), would the days of absence following that be counted towards a stage 2-in fact, if you were off for a further 2 weeks or so, could that mean a stage 2 in your absence? And so on....?

[stephen500]

I am led to believe that they can stage you, but normally don't.

[Throgg]

In our office we have someone currently sick (stress), and is about to recieve a 2nd stage warning.

I, along with others have questioned our reps & management. Reps say they have sent details further up the union chain, but have heard nothing back. Management say they are issueing the stage warnings because the person in question has failed to attend any interviews with the manager or respond to phone messages left.

[evilc]

If you are long term sick they can issue with stage warnings although it is not very good practice and really makes you want to make a speedy recovery.

[L Tommo]

Hypothetical scenario: If I were off work for 3 months (90 days give or take) with stress, all certificated, etc, could RM issue me with a stage 1 warning in my absence? If so I`d like to know the following:

1-Is it not the case that you have to have a return to work before they can stage you?
2-If not, is there a set time after being off sick that they can stage you in your absence and if so what is it?
3-Couldn`t you argue that the act of issuing the stage could in itself could cause you further stress?
4-If they stage you and you continue to be off sick, assuming the stage 1 would have an 'end of sickness' date (crazy in itself if you`re still off), would the days of absence following that be counted towards a stage 2-in fact, if you were off for a further 2 weeks or so, could that mean a stage 2 in your absence? And so on....?

MATE... they took me fast track from a no stage to a RTU.... For the same sickness.... While off sick... I cant divulge any more info but i know where your coming from....


OUT

[johnston65]

Aye they can take you through the stages if on long term sick but the fight would then be , if you were sacked at an appeal then a possible I.T.

[jimmy p]

We are normally advised by personell if it is correct to issue a stage warning if somone is still absent from work.

I agree with the majority of posters that it is unethical to issue whilst someone is still absent - I have never done this.

The businesses argument is that if standards are broken then a stage warning could be appropriate, the other argument is that if someone is off sick for whatever reason they are being paid so should be contactable for sick progress meetings, phonecalls etc. My advice is that if you are off sick long term - arrange to see EHS and make sure that you have regular contact with your manager - if it is stress, depression or any other illness likely to be made worse by constant contact see EHS and they should advise your manager not to bug you.

The problems with taking sick warnings that result in dismissall to ET's is that they do not look at the reasons for the dismissall, they look at three things - Did you have a fair hearing, is the manager/business consistent in it's decision making and was the correct process followed.

Because of the way RM is now structured it is very unlikely that any absence dismissall upheld in an appeal would be deemed inappropriate by a Employment tribunal.

Hope this helps

[L Tommo]

Jimmy P. Ta for the help..... I recon RM have consistantly given out stages with out takin every different case as a individual....

They didnt in my case and they didnt take EHS advice either, I done as you said and went to EHS but it didnt help, Business consent was given as well as letters from my Dr AND Specialist... The never took this into account... So as im concerned a fair use of the attendance procedure was never used....

WATCH THIS SPACE.....


out


NEVER LET THE BASTARDS GRIND US DOWN!!!

[blackadder]

some1 broke there arm at our place and got a stage 2 but was ok on appeal. me finks its royal mail new policy to make us even more fed up and leave thus saving on redundencies

[strangler]

We are normally advised by personell if it is correct to issue a stage warning if somone is still absent from work.

I agree with the majority of posters that it is unethical to issue whilst someone is still absent - I have never done this.

The businesses argument is that if standards are broken then a stage warning could be appropriate, the other argument is that if someone is off sick for whatever reason they are being paid so should be contactable for sick progress meetings, phonecalls etc. My advice is that if you are off sick long term - arrange to see EHS and make sure that you have regular contact with your manager - if it is stress, depression or any other illness likely to be made worse by constant contact see EHS and they should advise your manager not to bug you.

The problems with taking sick warnings that result in dismissall to ET's is that they do not look at the reasons for the dismissall, they look at three things - Did you have a fair hearing, is the manager/business consistent in it's decision making and was the correct process followed.

Because of the way RM is now structured it is very unlikely that any absence dismissall upheld in an appeal would be deemed inappropriate by a Employment tribunal.

Hope this helps

Thanks to all for advice on this. Beats me how they can class 1 absence as several different ones (i.e. stages) Like many I assumed a stage had to have a start and end date before they could get you any further.
I`m also baffled by the following... You have your 'return to work' and eventually get paperwork with date (minimum 48 hours notice I think) to attend stage 1 interview. If you go sick before or on that date then you will eventually receive paperwork with another date for that interview. But that last sickness does not count towards any future stages. In other words if you think you get the stage issued you`ve nothing to lose by doing this! I have this on good authority from union and management. I asked the manager (in a WTL) how long this could go on for and he replied awkwardly "well at some stage we`d have to issue it in his absence".
I also believe that the EHS is a complete waste of time as they are paid by RM anyway besides which even if they make recommendations RM can ignore them.

[jimmy p]

We are normally advised by personell if it is correct to issue a stage warning if somone is still absent from work.

I agree with the majority of posters that it is unethical to issue whilst someone is still absent - I have never done this.

The businesses argument is that if standards are broken then a stage warning could be appropriate, the other argument is that if someone is off sick for whatever reason they are being paid so should be contactable for sick progress meetings, phonecalls etc. My advice is that if you are off sick long term - arrange to see EHS and make sure that you have regular contact with your manager - if it is stress, depression or any other illness likely to be made worse by constant contact see EHS and they should advise your manager not to bug you.

The problems with taking sick warnings that result in dismissall to ET's is that they do not look at the reasons for the dismissall, they look at three things - Did you have a fair hearing, is the manager/business consistent in it's decision making and was the correct process followed.

Because of the way RM is now structured it is very unlikely that any absence dismissall upheld in an appeal would be deemed inappropriate by a Employment tribunal.

Hope this helps

Thanks to all for advice on this. Beats me how they can class 1 absence as several different ones (i.e. stages) Like many I assumed a stage had to have a start and end date before they could get you any further.
I`m also baffled by the following... You have your 'return to work' and eventually get paperwork with date (minimum 48 hours notice I think) to attend stage 1 interview. If you go sick before or on that date then you will eventually receive paperwork with another date for that interview. But that last sickness does not count towards any future stages. In other words if you think you get the stage issued you`ve nothing to lose by doing this! I have this on good authority from union and management. I asked the manager (in a WTL) how long this could go on for and he replied awkwardly "well at some stage we`d have to issue it in his absence".
I also believe that the EHS is a complete waste of time as they are paid by RM anyway besides which even if they make recommendations RM can ignore them.

No RM manager should ever ignore EHS - they sometimes do not give answers to some operational questions and are sometimes a bit lack lustre in helping - but their advice is medically based.

Yes you are right - you can continue going sick before a stage warning but eventually a manger would invite you in even if you are still sick and if you did not turn up would issue in your absence - the problem is that we have standards, polocies and processes that must be followed.

[cappamore]

You cannot receive more than one stage warning for one period of absence. The stated purpose of a stage warning is to inform you of the need to improve your attendance. If you are given a warning while still on certificated sick leave, and therefore considered unfit fo work, how on earth can anyone reasonably expect you to improve?

RM used to issue multiple warnings for lengthy absences; and called it the 'Philips Procedure', after one of their lawyers. It was officially stopped around 7 years ago. I wasn't aware they'd reintroduced it but then I left nearly 3 years ago. They would not get away with it at an Employment Tribunal; trust me I know what I'm talking about here.

Now, if you'll excuse me I seem to be unwell and suffering from depression....................but then I'm a Chelsea supporter, one who was going to the Bridge when we were crap, and I'm feeling rather down.

[cappamore]

All absences up to and including the date of the stage interview are included in that stage. (That's what the attendance procedure states.) So if you are on a Stage 1 and have , say, 4 absences in any 6 months in the 12 months following the issuing of the Stage 1 warning, than you go to Stage 2; you cannot be speeded through to stage 3.

Sill unwell. I blame it on Roman

[Stormproof]

I got a stage 1 for breaking my arm off for 38 days
Am on a stage 2 now for going off with stress due to B & H from a manager.
I am off sick at the mo, 10 days so far, severe anemia, had to have a blood transfusion on Wednesday no doubt when I go back I will be up for a stage 3 and out of the door for good.

[POSTMAN]

Because of the way RM is now structured.....

Is this the e-mail you guys were sent saying the amount of stages given were below a certain % and this had to be raised.
Whether you got one or not i am 100% that it was sent out as i was told by one of your lot!!

Seems to me it's figures,and not what it really should be like.
This subject really grates me as i have had personal grievence with it so i wont say no more and will await your answer.