Is seniority illegal

[P739]

Was having a discussion with fellow Posties on this subject yesterday and this came up...Can anyone shed any light on the subject....thanks.

[fishtank]

Unlawful?
In the words of Kenny Dalglish...Mibbies Aye Mibbies Naw.
It depends on the application.
You decide.

Equality Act 2010 Chapter 15 Schedule 9 — Work: exceptions
Part 2 — Exceptions relating to age
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/201 ... 015_en.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Benefits based on length of service
10 (1) It is not an age contravention for a person (A) to put a person (B) at a disadvantage when compared with another (C), in relation to the provision of a benefit, facility or service in so far as the disadvantage is because B has
a shorter period of service than C.
(2) If B’s period of service exceeds 5 years, A may rely on sub-paragraph (1) only if A reasonably believes that doing so fulfils a business need.
(3) A person’s period of service is whichever of the following A chooses—(a) the period for which the person has been working for A at or above a level (assessed by reference to the demands made on the person) that A reasonably regards as appropriate for the purposes of this paragraph, or
(b) the period for which the person has been working for A at any level.
(4) The period for which a person has been working for A must be based on the number of weeks during the whole or part of which the person has worked for A.
(5) But for that purpose A may, so far as is reasonable, discount—
(a) periods of absence;
(b) periods that A reasonably regards as related to periods of absence.
(6) For the purposes of sub-paragraph (3)(b), a person is to be treated as having worked for A during any period in which the person worked for a person other than A if—
(a) that period counts as a period of employment with A as a result of section 218 of the Employment Rights Act 1996, or
(b) if sub-paragraph (a) does not apply, that period is treated as a period of employment by an enactment pursuant to which the person’s employment was transferred to A.
(7) For the purposes of this paragraph, the reference to a benefit, facility or
service does not include a reference to a benefit, facility or service which may
be provided only by virtue of a person’s ceasing to work.

[keithposty]

seniority in royal mail is done on LENGTH OF SERVICE and not age or sex

seniority is not unlawful to be correct and not illegal

incomming and tin hat out

[fishtank]

Using length of service does not automatically make it lawful.
After all you can hardly have 20 years service if you're 25 years old,
It is a very complicated business and each case has to be judged on it's own merits.
Trying to box it up as lawful or unlawful is about as easy as nailing jelly to a wall.

[fishtank]

Throw in a difference in earning opportunities and it gets really messy.
Throw in the fact that women on average have less service and the lawyers will be filling their boots arguing for months.

[DGP1]

FT, lawyers could argue for months over what colour a sign should or shouldn't be, for something as complex as seniority it would be years.

Anyway, can anyone think of a better system?

[hantsman]

seniority in royal mail is done on LENGTH OF SERVICE and not age or sex

seniority is not unlawful to be correct and not illegal

incomming and tin hat out

Leave in RM using seniority I believe is not lawful,

[P739]

What about (ring fencing duties) that can't be right..?

[hampshireman]

seniority in royal mail is done on LENGTH OF SERVICE and not age or sex

seniority is not unlawful to be correct and not illegal

incomming and tin hat out

Leave in RM using seniority I believe is not lawful,

They do that in my office

[welshy808]

seniority in royal mail is done on LENGTH OF SERVICE and not age or sex

seniority is not unlawful to be correct and not illegal

incomming and tin hat out

Leave in RM using seniority I believe is not lawful,

They do that in my office

I was under the impression that as all deliveries were supposed to be equal that seniority would be lawful in a re-pick, as no advantage would be gained from using seniority
but there would be an advantage when using seniority to select leave days therefore it would be unlawful to use seniority and that is why it is no longer used to select leave.

[andybfc]

Whats the official line on this? Seniority is used for annual leave in my office.

[jonsboys]

seniority in royal mail is done on LENGTH OF SERVICE and not age or sex

seniority is not unlawful to be correct and not illegal

incomming and tin hat out

Leave in RM using seniority I believe is not lawful,

Its not in ours, and it should not be in any! You are on a list and each year your name moves up one on the list until you are at the top. So your office is wrong and unfair in its practices, it should be the same fair system across rm!

[welshy808]

seniority in royal mail is done on LENGTH OF SERVICE and not age or sex

seniority is not unlawful to be correct and not illegal

incomming and tin hat out

Leave in RM using seniority I believe is not lawful,

Its not in ours, and it should not be in any! You are on a list and each year your name moves up one on the list until you are at the top. So your office is wrong and unfair in its practices, it should be the same fair system across rm!

this is the first example given in the way forward agreement, it's also the one used in our office.
perhaps this is where the confusion comes from as it is acceptable to set the initial pick within a group by seniority as long as it rotates after.
so seniority was used but only in the very first instance and within a specific leave group not for the entire office.

[genesis]

Without seniority there is no progress , at the time of writing our office has newish posties in better jobs, although walks are equal seniority enables you to get the one you want ,not as we are experiencing currently where senior men seem because of revisions to be doing the more (let us say undulating ones ). Its also open to abuse with managers placing favorites in walks temporarily , which becomes long term ,very long term.

[POSTMAN]

Seniority and annual leave,good discussion here with some interesting info,including,page 4...

I think your find that after the way forward agreement , there was a further agreement covering annual leave section between Martin Collins and Adrain Delslo from Royal Mail. This further document allowed for offices to keep seniority and a lot of offices have still got these in place.

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 15&t=40008" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;