Stage 1 sick when should it be issued

[music4essex]

Hi
As a few of you are aware last year I was put on stage 1 for a dog bite issue which culminated in me having 4 weeks off

I also put up that this was flagged up to Dave Joyce headquarters and this was to be put back to stage 0.

Now my dim/lino ignored the advice that i was to be put back to stage 0.
In a meeting in january 2012 with line manager who was acting dom and the ADM I asked as to why my sickness had not been reversed , they said that they had only just got the letter and that HR would be notified and I would get a copy of my up to date sickness record. this was never forthcoming

2 weeks back I was off sick with work related stress and Chest infection (due to doms changing agreements another story)
Culminating in 7 days off, in the middle of this sickness I was due to have 1 days holiday that had been pre booked, to which I cancelled when dom rang me up during the sick.

Yesterday the lino gave me a letter saying that i had 14 days off sick, I said how can that be when in the meeting you said that i was to be put back to stage 0, her reply was that the dog issue was last May, my argument is that they never acknowledged it till january 2012 and that it should start then , who is right also if I had not cancelled my 1 day holiday then I would not have gone to the 14 days .

Any advice would be helpful and appreciated
Essex mum

[madmartin]

you said you were off for 7 days, where does the other 7 days come from?

[easter bunny]

Once a Stage 1 and 2 has been issued there is NO appeals process - no matter how it was given . You must wait for a Stage 3 for it to be reversed .

You should have taken a grievance out against the Manager who issued it .

Did you not take a rep into the original interview ?

[NumptyBumpty]

I don't understand. Did you have another 7 days in between the dog attack and the latest absence. If so, then i don't see what the problem is. You didn't have choice regarding the 1 day holiday. If you have leave booked but you are ill at the time then the leave is credited back.

[Red Robbo]

Hi
As a few of you are aware last year I was put on stage 1 for a dog bite issue which culminated in me having 4 weeks off

I also put up that this was flagged up to Dave Joyce headquarters and this was to be put back to stage 0.

Now my dim/lino ignored the advice that i was to be put back to stage 0.
In a meeting in january 2012 with line manager who was acting dom and the ADM I asked as to why my sickness had not been reversed , they said that they had only just got the letter and that HR would be notified and I would get a copy of my up to date sickness record. this was never forthcoming

2 weeks back I was off sick with work related stress and Chest infection (due to doms changing agreements another story)
Culminating in 7 days off, in the middle of this sickness I was due to have 1 days holiday that had been pre booked, to which I cancelled when dom rang me up during the sick.

Yesterday the lino gave me a letter saying that i had 14 days off sick, I said how can that be when in the meeting you said that i was to be put back to stage 0, her reply was that the dog issue was last May, my argument is that they never acknowledged it till january 2012 and that it should start then , who is right also if I had not cancelled my 1 day holiday then I would not have gone to the 14 days .

Any advice would be helpful and appreciated
Essex mum

Did the letter state you have incurred 4 absences or 14 days off in a 12 month period , if so this would have taken into account the 4 weeks off for the dog bite ?

[keithposty]

Once a Stage 1 and 2 has been issued there is NO appeals process - no matter how it was given . You must wait for a Stage 3 for it to be reversed .

You should have taken a grievance out against the Manager who issued it .

Did you not take a rep into the original interview ?

i have represented a collegue who had a stage 1 issued for an accident on duty. i advised a grievance

i progressed the grievance up to a stage three within a month and it was decided to remove the attendance warning

all that is needed is for a manager on a minimum of an EL2 grade to contact HR, and they will remove it

i will keep on saying it, if you feel an attendance warning is going to be issued, put in a grievance if valid, and only if valid.

accident on duty for example

[Postal1]

How about dda related sickness. Because i see the employer ignoring regular dda atos adjustment recomendations. Plus i also see people given stage warnings for dda related sickness?

[keithposty]

How about dda related sickness. Because i see the employer ignoring regular dda atos adjustment recomendations. Plus i also see people given stage warnings for dda related sickness?

then i ask the question

why is the office rep not dealing with this (protected characteristics)

unless the bull is taken by the horns, they will keep doing it

prob the managers know no different and need to be educated

[General Mannerheim]

How about dda related sickness. Because i see the employer ignoring regular dda atos adjustment recomendations. Plus i also see people given stage warnings for dda related sickness?

then i ask the question

why is the office rep not dealing with this (protected characteristics)

unless the bull is taken by the horns, they will keep doing it

prob the managers know no different and need to be educated

To be fair to the reps alot of people don't declare or show signs of being DDA they just get on with things,it's only when things get to a head that alot of people seek union rep help usually when it gets to a stage 3. As evidenced on some threads on here.
How many times have you heard somebody on here or at work be it a work colleague or lino manager say it's only a stage1 so what? I've had loads of them,it's nothing!! Then the person goes in on his own as the rep is `busy` or can't be arsed as it's only a stage 1 then it happends again at stage 2 and your nice friendly neighbourhood manager issues a stage 2 when he really shouldn't and hey presto your on a knife edge.

As for the managers THEY KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing,orders from on high to cut the surplus postie population using whatever foul means are necessary, they need educating the WHOLE SYSTEM needs replacing,how the feck can you issue a stage system and NOT have an appeals process until the stage 3...all this bolloxs about shoving in a grievance is s**t as most of the time they don't even acknowledge the fecker or when they do they send round another manager who is really impartial who fobs you off with "I will reccomend that he doesn't do it again the naughty boy"

Then you find out he's doing it to another work mate within a month of his so called bollocking.

[keithposty]

i agree with a lot of what you are saying

if a collegue has been off for whatever reason, the back to work interview (legal requirement) needs to be done. this will identify any long term issues such as DDA and ATOS informed

its called a paper trail.

managers regular as clockwork ignore this process. it is down to the h & s rep or IR to clamp down on this and do it official by instigating a safety action plan for compliance.

royal mail like any other employer has obligations under the health and safety at work act 1974, hazards at work, and the workplace health safety and welfare regulations 1992, let alone the equalities act to comply

why is the area safety rep not involved as well, every thing i do, letter, email etc, i will send to the ASR to keep him in the loop

to be fair to managers, some do take responsability but its forgotten the next day as operational needs allways seem to take precedence
it seems education of reps is whats needed to stamp this policy by management once and for all.

[Darren Bent]

I wonder do other employers do these stage 1,2,3 stuff at work. As I never done those things in other jobs.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I wonder do other employers do these stage 1,2,3 stuff at work. As I never done those things in other jobs.

No but all Business must have a disciplinary process or at least document the process towards dismissing an employee. In essence just what keithposty says "a paper trail".

[Geezer]

How about dda related sickness. Because i see the employer ignoring regular dda atos adjustment recomendations. Plus i also see people given stage warnings for dda related sickness?

As for the managers THEY KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing,orders from on high to cut the surplus postie population using whatever foul means are necessary, they need educating the WHOLE SYSTEM needs replacing,how the feck can you issue a stage system and NOT have an appeals process until the stage 3...all this bolloxs about shoving in a grievance is s**t as most of the time they don't even acknowledge the fecker or when they do they send round another manager who is really impartial who fobs you off with "I will reccomend that he doesn't do it again the naughty boy"

Then you find out he's doing it to another work mate within a month of his so called bollocking.

Take it to an ET if they don't follow ATOS or DDA advise, And let the Court Decide.

[music4essex]

Thanks for the replies.
In answer to some questions,
. ADR DADR Disability champion have all been dealing with the issues that have come up with both my over zelous managers

1. Dog bite 2 weeks off, back to work on monday abused by dog owners,( also put on stage 1 as I had 14 days off
Dom never sorted it out, ask me to write a letter about the inceident on the following friday caused me to be late out cut off, conduct code for alledgly going slow, this was April, I went off sick with anxiety, when returned after getting a threatening letter that i had abondond duty, I returned to work.
2. I was put on NCI procedure for the next 3 months becuase of my doms insistence of not working fast enough

3. Each time I was threatened with either conduct issue's I always had ADR with me.

4. In july dom had to concede he had no evidence and would not take the conduct issue any further, but then the next day gave me a letter that i would be put on another 3 month NCI procedure.

5. Dave joyce was informed and he wrote to RM Safety director and in no uncertain terms i was not to be tested any more and the dog bite issue to be recinded, though the testing did eventually stop in september, no acknowledgement from managers regarding the sickness being reversed, Then Royal Mail then insisted I see atos and tried then to get me either transfered to a mail centre or IHR, I refused both I then had 5 more telephone and face to face interviews, by this time It is now november and had the disability champion on board as I had a pre exisitng injury AOD that RM knew about that comes under DDA.
6. Had face to face atos that said I was more then capable of a doing deliveries and that reasonable adjustments were to be made.
7. got an agreement(Januuary) in this interview came up the issue of stage 1, see original post. management agreed duty then 3 days latter changed there minds , 1 month on another meeting took place two weeks back, inbetween time I had had so much stress that I got a chest infection which culminated in me having 7 days off and still suffering with it,
but in november before the atos meeting/area meeting, I did have 7 days off again WR Stess and a cold , having had so much stuff Royal mail tries to throw at you your body sometimes just gives out, and I think this is happening with me I have seen my own doctors and have been put on anti depressants.

part two coming up in another post
Essex mum

[General Mannerheim]

How about dda related sickness. Because i see the employer ignoring regular dda atos adjustment recomendations. Plus i also see people given stage warnings for dda related sickness?

As for the managers THEY KNOW EXACTLY what they are doing,orders from on high to cut the surplus postie population using whatever foul means are necessary, they need educating the WHOLE SYSTEM needs replacing,how the feck can you issue a stage system and NOT have an appeals process until the stage 3...all this bolloxs about shoving in a grievance is s**t as most of the time they don't even acknowledge the fecker or when they do they send round another manager who is really impartial who fobs you off with "I will reccomend that he doesn't do it again the naughty boy"

Then you find out he's doing it to another work mate within a month of his so called bollocking.

Take it to an ET if they don't follow ATOS or DDA advise, And let the Court Decide.

I already am!