LEAVE ALLOCATION FORMULA (DINGO POSSIBLY ?)

[Cheetah]

I raised a question on the following thread http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... 9&start=15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anyone know if this formula (or any other formula) exist for the working out of how many holiday slots should be made available in any office and if so a link to it would be great.
Postman seems to think the number of staff X 6 weeks / 49 or 50 weeks was quoted by Dingo but not 100% sure.
Any help would be much appreciated, there must be some agreed way of calculating the number of slots, it's surely not just pulled out of thin air.......

[TrueBlueTerrier]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... ve#p358079" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

its the only thread I can find discussing it but it looks familiar to the one you posted except its 48 weeks. I think the number of week depends on the leave block your unit has for Xmas.

[Cheetah]

http://www.royalmailchat.co.uk/communit ... ve#p358079

its the only thread I can find discussing it but it looks familiar to the one you posted except its 48 weeks. I think the number of week depends on the leave block your unit has for Xmas.

Thanks for that TBT but what I am rely after is a definitive document which I can print off and take in, but reading your link I don't know if one actually exists, which probably explains the difference from unit to unit, depends on how good the negotiator is/was.....

[POSTMAN]

Maybe Dingo will come on and produce a document,i take what he says as gospel but obviously others may need documents to back it up.
But tbf,the formula when you think of it makes sense.
Where is he btw?

[Cheetah]

Maybe Dingo will come on and produce a document,i take what he says as gospel but obviously others may need documents to back it up.
But tbf,the formula when you think of it makes sense.
Where is he btw?

Most deffinatally Postman, I also believe and see the sense in what has been said.
I have been banging my head against a wall for ages and tried every avenue to be mainly poe poed by the union in the fight to get a fair leave list, as I have said in other threads, we just haven't got enough slots on our list to cover all allocated leave never mind any choice. If I could produce an agreed document they would have to address our problem or at least I hope they will have to. So come on Dingo please ..... Thanks for your help all ........

[POSTMAN]

Maybe Dingo will come on and produce a document,i take what he says as gospel but obviously others may need documents to back it up.
But tbf,the formula when you think of it makes sense.
Where is he btw?

Most deffinatally Postman, I also believe and see the sense in what has been said.
I have been banging my head against a wall for ages and tried every avenue to be mainly poe poed by the union in the fight to get a fair leave list, as I have said in other threads, we just haven't got enough slots on our list to cover all allocated leave never mind any choice. If I could produce an agreed document they would have to address our problem or at least I hope they will have to. So come on Dingo please ..... Thanks for your help all ........

PM him.

[Martin Walsh]

The annual leave spread is normally decided by taking all the annual leave of full timers first and then agreeing the number of weeks you are going to use most use 50 weeks as the closed christmas period of leave is then excluded. However some mail centres and RDCs also exclude the whole of December and therefore use 48 weeks.

So for example if you have 30 people in the office and they all had 6 weeks leave , then you would mutiply 30 by 6 weeks and get 180 weeks and then you would then divide that by say 50 weeks and you would have a leave spread of of 3.6 therefore allowing on some weeks 4 people off per week and on some weeks 3 people off.

The same rationale would be used on part timers. Of course the Pay and Mod agreement allows you to try and attempt to get more people off during the summer months when it is usually a lighter traffic week.

[Tamsky]

RM want to allocate Leave to Duty sets, limiting leave opportunities. They maintain this is compliant with the Way Forward Agreement.......is it? Going to Stage 3 next week.

[Cheetah]

The annual leave spread is normally decided by taking all the annual leave of full timers first and then agreeing the number of weeks you are going to use most use 50 weeks as the closed christmas period of leave is then excluded. However some mail centres and RDCs also exclude the whole of December and therefore use 48 weeks.

So for example if you have 30 people in the office and they all had 6 weeks leave , then you would mutiply 30 by 6 weeks and get 180 weeks and then you would then divide that by say 50 weeks and you would have a leave spread of of 3.6 therefore allowing on some weeks 4 people off per week and on some weeks 3 people off.

The same rationale would be used on part timers. Of course the Pay and Mod agreement allows you to try and attempt to get more people off during the summer months when it is usually a lighter traffic week.

Thank you for your reply Dingo..... Very interesting, however surely under this system there will not be enough leave for the whole office when credited bank holiday days are allocated and extra holls for people who have been re credited with leave as they were registered off sick when that leave occurred are taken into account for that leave year. (It would be impossible to take into account bank holidays etc which are to be credited for many reasons i.e change of duty, all leave reserves as they don't know what duty they will be on when Bank holls occur etc, and obviously people don't know they will be off sick on leave they have booked).
For example (i'll try and keep it simple)......

A D/O has 92 posties on a 5 day week for the 2012/2013 year
32 who have 6 weeks leave
40 who have 26 days i.e 5.2 weeks leave
20 who have 24 days i.e 4.8 weeks leave
So following the calculation, the average weeks per employee is,
32 posties x 6 weeks = 192
40 posties x 5.2 weeks = 208
20 posties x 4.8 weeks = 96
=192+208+96 / 92 posties = 5.39 weeks per postie average leave.
Therefor applying the formula, 92 posties x 5.39 weeks / 50 (2 weeks blocked off at christmas) = 9.92 weeks say 10 slots on average leave per week (some may be 11 some may be 9 etc)
During that year say for example, a total of 190 bank holidays fall on the 92 posties days off so are credited to them, people were re credited with a total of 140 days which they were off sick during time when they booked as leave. How do they book those days off as there are no slots available on the list as only the allocated set annual leave has been taken into account?......
Surely there has to be built in spare leave in the list to cater for the above as all that due leave could not be carried over, set aside the fact that when the last person comes to book his odd days off he will have no choice at all......

[Cheetah]

I'll take it there is no formula then...... We'll all just muddle through ourselves, if you have a good rep who can bargain and negotiate, you might get a good deal.... If like us you have a managers toadie for a rep you will get a crap holiday selection .
You would of thought a fair holiday selection for all it's members would have been a priority with any descent trade union, with some kind of guide lines or set formula negotiated nationally to ensure fairness across the board..... Our unions efforts "ah leave them to sort it out themselves, locally" .....

[POSTMAN]

Holidays and days off seem to be a big problem for a lot of you,a lot seem to get stitched up and had over.
If management changed their attitude towards it,sickness levels would drop big time.

[Cheetah]

Holidays and days off seem to be a big problem for a lot of you,a lot seem to get stitched up and had over.
If management changed their attitude towards it,sickness levels would drop big time.

You're right there Postman, but it's quite evident they only have intentions of decreasing holiday choice or even holiday entitlement if they get their way . As I have said given the situation, you would think the union would be all over it like a rash, ensuring members get their allocation and a fair choice of when they take their leave as it's obviously a national problem...... But yet again the heads are in the sand, time is being taken up with PROJECT PLAN (who thinks of these stupid names) now I guess ..... Wait for it I can feel another set of toothless recomendations being drafted as we speak bet RM are quaking in their boots ...... If I wasn't so grateful for the wonderful benefits proper trade unionists have got us years gone by, I would say I wished I'd have kept my money in my pocket and stayed out when i chucked the toys out of the cot after BT2010 !!!!!!!!! Thanks for nothing CWU again