later start times on implementation of revision

[keithposty]

just a quick one

when the revision is signed off by the cwu rep, park and loop starting, sequenced mail allready being done

do management need to give 28 days notice on change of start times

BT2010, which clearly states that later start times will be introduced in line with P & L revision,

the reason i ask is that it states change of start time during the six phase process and bt2010, so they can say the troops have been given notice but i am of the opinion 28 days notice needs to be given as its a direct contractual change and people have child care issues and 2nd jobs to deal with

comments please

[god]

any replies

[fishtank]

No.
It is change by agreement not imposed change.
It is very unlikely that a revision will go from agreeing start times,which are a fundamental building block of the revision and should be agreed as early as possible...to implementation inside 28 days anyway.
If the rep has waited until everything is signed off before informing the members of the proposed start times i would question where the member involvement has been.

[PhilthyPhil]

BT2010, which clearly states that later start times will be introduced in line with P & L revision

Does it? Where? Offices in our area which had a DM revision before sequencing came in did not change their start times. Some have changed since sequencing but not as part of a revision and some are still starting as early at 0530

[keithposty]

the difference would be if your office was an MPU

now back to the question on change of start times

if its an intergrated revision, park and loop, sequenced mail from the host mpu,
the host mpu would receive there sequenced mail last

if start times are moving forward say to 7am at the same time as the implementation of the revision

HOW MUCH NOTICE WOULD IT BE REASONABLE FOR THE BUSINESS TO GIVE FOR STAFF TO PREPARE FOR THE CHANGE (CONFIRMED CHANGE DATE)

as stated, people may have second jobs and child care issues so equality impact assessmants may come into play

its just a sinario if the business tries to rush in change of start times and revision all at once on a fixed day say 2 weeks into the future

[fishtank]

if start times are moving forward say to 7am at the same time as the implementation of the revision

HOW MUCH NOTICE WOULD IT BE REASONABLE FOR THE BUSINESS TO GIVE FOR STAFF TO PREPARE FOR THE CHANGE (CONFIRMED CHANGE DATE)

as stated, people may have second jobs and child care issues so equality impact assessmants may come into play

its just a sinario if the business tries to rush in change of start times and revision all at once on a fixed day say 2 weeks into the future

If start times are moving at the same time as the implementation of the revision they must have been agreed as part of the revision.
You can't possibly sign off a revision without knowing what the start/finish times are/will be.
That's ludicrous.

If you have agreed a revision based on certain start times and management are trying to change them that would require further agreement from the members otherwise it's 28 days and executive action.
If the members agree the change in start times there is no set time other than any unofficial agreement on a reasonable timeframe.

[keithposty]

If the members agree the change in start times there is no set time other than any unofficial agreement on a reasonable timeframe.

thats the question

what would you deem reasonable notice

a week
2 weeks
28 days

[keithposty]

If the members agree the change in start times there is no set time other than any unofficial agreement on a reasonable timeframe.

thats the million dollar question

what would you deem reasonable notice on implementation

a week
2 weeks
28 days

[fishtank]

It depends how long the members have been aware of the proposed/agreed change to start times keith.
If it was sprung on them today which it shouldn't have been i would expect at least 4 weeks.
If they've know about if for some time perhaps 2 weeks is enough.
If any members are having particular issues they could be addressed individually.

[obscurityknocks]

What sort of starting times does the revision involve? We have not had a park and loop revision yet (planned early spring i think) but at the moment some of our full time rurals start at 7.45am depending on day off. Any later than that then its gonna to take them past 4pm finishing time i would guess.

[obscurityknocks]

if start times are moving forward say to 7am at the same time as the implementation of the revision

HOW MUCH NOTICE WOULD IT BE REASONABLE FOR THE BUSINESS TO GIVE FOR STAFF TO PREPARE FOR THE CHANGE (CONFIRMED CHANGE DATE)

as stated, people may have second jobs and child care issues so equality impact assessmants may come into play

its just a sinario if the business tries to rush in change of start times and revision all at once on a fixed day say 2 weeks into the future

If start times are moving at the same time as the implementation of the revision they must have been agreed as part of the revision.
You can't possibly sign off a revision without knowing what the start/finish times are/will be.
That's ludicrous.

If you have agreed a revision based on certain start times and management are trying to change them that would require further agreement from the members otherwise it's 28 days and executive action.
If the members agree the change in start times there is no set time other than any unofficial agreement on a reasonable timeframe.

Fishtank, our last revision, we only got details of new starting times at the meeting when we were due to vote for it. Those who put there vote on paper as they couldnt attend the meeting didnt even know starting times!! This was raised by a few of us but rep and area rep said it would be fine.

[keithposty]

another question

now when would you expect to decide on start times during the revision process

i would think after phase 2 has been signed off and then going onto the duty builder (phase 3)

comments people

[POSTMAN]

The revision process takes months,surely somewhere way before 28 days (which is irelevant anyway) there will be start times agreed/looked at.

To be fair Keith this thread doesn't make sense,well to me anyway.

[keithposty]

i realise its starting to get a bit confused

our revision is still at phase 2 after three months due to the mapping etc and we refuse to sign it off,
still not convinced on the welfare issue also

it has not stopped the planners still going ahead and running sinarios for phase 3 (duty builder etc)

putting maps up etc