majority of staff want 1 in 6 weekends, some 1 in 4

[keithposty]

oh what to do to keep people happy pre revision

the bt 2010 agreement states that a minimum 1 in 4 saturdays is the minimum standard agreed in the revision reocess

the majority of the office in 1 to 1 negotiations has deciced they prefer a 1 in 6 rotation

about 5 people are addamant they want the agreed 1 in 4 as stated in the agreement

what is the best way to negotiate a 1 in 4 for these people as management seem reluctant to bend to there request considering most of the office want 1 in 6 but still comply within the agreement

its doing a duty structure for these people in the minority that will be acceptable to management is the problem

many thanks

[Hitcher]

Why on earth do people not want more weekends off? What's wrong with these people?

[keithposty]

TELL ME ABOUT IT

THEY HAVE BEEN BRAINWASHED AND UNDER THE IMPRESSION OF LONGER DELIVERY SPANS ETC IF THEY DO NOT ACCEPT THE 1 IN 6

[daveyeff]

Why on earth do people not want more weekends off? What's wrong with these people?

they wont want to go onto longer delivery spans, a 1 sat off in 6 means 3.5hrs delivery, if they want 1 in 4 sats off then their delivery will go to at least 4.5 hrs.,,,,ours are currently 4hrs45mins,. to be honest though, if they use the trolley, the actuall delivery spans are about 3hrs 50mins to 4 hrs, cos using the trolley takes more time, and this method will take you up to your time well before you,ve been out for 4.5/4.75 hrs. if you just use the bag on you,re shoulder you WILL get done quicker, which WILL in turn give them scope to do lapsing.

[mazza111]

They pulled the same one at my old DO. Then stated only full timers would get the 1 in 4. The part timers weren't even going to be guaranteed 1 in 6. Think I had about 5 saturdays off that weren't holidays in 4 years. These were the ones I asked for. Don't get me wrong, if I had asked for more than that I would probably have got them, it just suited me to have a monday off.


As for the revision and the 1 in 4 I have no idea if they got it or not. Reading these forums make me enjoy my IHR even more

[fishtank]

There is no definite need to move to a longer attendance pattern to get 1 in 4 saturdays.
It is possible simply to move to a four week rotation Thurs-Mon instead of a 6 week Mon-Sat rotation.
This will possibly mean moving your part-timers to a fewer attendance/longer day pattern but in my experience in the majority of cases part-timers prefer this anyway.

[daveyeff]

it will for full timers though fish, wont it? surely a 4 day week i.e. thurs-mon or mon-thurs would mean 4 ten hour shifts

[fishtank]

it will for full timers though fish, wont it? surely a 4 day week i.e. thurs-mon or mon-thurs would mean 4 ten hour shifts

No...not necessarily.

4 week rotations full-time working a five day week.
X=Working O=day off
Mon..Tue..Wed..Thur..Fri..Sat
..X.....X.....X.....X......X....O
..O.....X.....X.....X......X....X
..X.....X.....X.....O......X....X
..X.....X.....X.....X......O....X...1 in 4 Sat

The only issue is that you have all your full-timers in Tue and Wed so to balance this you need part-timers on this rota working full days.

4 week rotations part-time working a three day week
X=Working O=day off
Mon..Tue..Wed..Thur..Fri..Sat
..X.....O.....O.....X......X....O
..O.....O.....O.....X......X....X
..X.....O.....O.....O......X....X
..X.....O.....O.....X......O....X...1 in 4 Sat.

You will also probably need to shorten attendances on Tue and Wed otherwise you will be lapsing with 100% full-time on those days.

[hans solo]

oh what to do to keep people happy pre revision

the bt 2010 agreement states that a minimum 1 in 4 saturdays is the minimum standard agreed in the revision reocess

the majority of the office in 1 to 1 negotiations has deciced they prefer a 1 in 6 rotation

about 5 people are addamant they want the agreed 1 in 4 as stated in the agreement

what is the best way to negotiate a 1 in 4 for these people as management seem reluctant to bend to there request considering most of the office want 1 in 6 but still comply within the agreement

its doing a duty structure for these people in the minority that will be acceptable to management is the problem
how do you know that 1-1 s produced that outcome do you believe them
did you not tell members they would still be lapsing et all with 3.30 del spans
they have been conned by mgmt get union meet discuss and vote as a group
then insist on ballot for fair outcome
make sure all options are TRUE and available to members via bt 2010 agreement

many thanks

[woofwoof]

it will for full timers though fish, wont it? surely a 4 day week i.e. thurs-mon or mon-thurs would mean 4 ten hour shifts

No...not necessarily.

4 week rotations full-time working a five day week.
X=Working O=day off
Mon..Tue..Wed..Thur..Fri..Sat
..X.....X.....X.....X......X....O
..O.....X.....X.....X......X....X
..X.....X.....X.....O......X....X
..X.....X.....X.....X......O....X...1 in 4 Sat

The only issue is that you have all your full-timers in Tue and Wed so to balance this you need part-timers on this rota working full days.

4 week rotations part-time working a three day week
X=Working O=day off
Mon..Tue..Wed..Thur..Fri..Sat
..X.....O.....O.....X......X....O
..O.....O.....O.....X......X....X
..X.....O.....O.....O......X....X
..X.....O.....O.....X......O....X...1 in 4 Sat.

You will also probably need to shorten attendances on Tue and Wed otherwise you will be lapsing with 100% full-time on those days.

so your saying go with longs and shorts to reduce the option for lapsing

[fishtank]

so your saying go with longs and shorts to reduce the option for lapsing

It's an option.
They will certainly never address the volume issue on a tuesday.
Much as we loved the early finish it is no longer sustainable,they will just absorb half the office now and offer what in return...extra tuesdays off?....No thanks.
If you are proposing long and shorts you have to agree a line in the sand with the members on long days.
With us it was 2.30pm on a friday.
Our F/T times are...
Mon 0620-1410
Tue 0620-1345
Wed 0620-1410
Thur 0620-1420
Fri 0620-1430
Sat 0620-1400

[pogman]

Why on earth do people not want more weekends off? What's wrong with these people?

they wont want to go onto longer delivery spans, a 1 sat off in 6 means 3.5hrs delivery, if they want 1 in 4 sats off then their delivery will go to at least 4.5 hrs.,,,,ours are currently 4hrs45mins,. to be honest though, if they use the trolley, the actuall delivery spans are about 3hrs 50mins to 4 hrs, cos using the trolley takes more time, and this method will take you up to your time well before you,ve been out for 4.5/4.75 hrs. if you just use the bag on you,re shoulder you WILL get done quicker, which WILL in turn give them scope to do lapsing.

What rubbish, you do not work a minute longer having 1 Saturday off in 4 than you do 1 in 6. The only time you have a longer delivery is if you choose to have 9 day fortnights or 4 days on 4 days off. The only difference is you rotate around Fri,Sat,Mon,Tues. Long weekend every 4th week.
We have 1 in 4`s planned around 3hrs 50mins including travelling, the only time you have a longer delivery span is if you havent got enough indoor element on your duty, thats the reason, not 1 in 4`s. If we stayed on 1 in 6`s it would still be 3hrs 50mins.
Management would like everyone to stay on 1 in 6`s cos it saves them money!!

[Hitcher]

Even if you choose a 9 day fortnight, as we did, you get more days off work.

Given the choice would these people work 6 days a week if it meant shorter days?

[pop it in pete]

Try 2 in 6 . You come in 15mins earlier that those that want to stay the same you stick to the same work patten but get the extra saturdayas a result of adding up all those 15mins over 6 weeks. Making 2 in a 6 week period.
The great thing is many of the muppets on 1 in 6 come in early as well and dont get the extra saturday

[peterloo]

lookin at 2 in 6 in my office at the mo. Did you have to employ small contract saturday p/t