Granny comes a cropper on our stairs

[arty_morty]

Yesterday evening an old lady fell and injured herself quite badly (deep head wound) on our outside stairs leading to the callers office. The stairs are unlit and numerous people have told the DOMs that this was an accident waiting to happen. One of the posties in the callers went to help the lady. He grabbed the first aid kit and found that the contents had expired in 2008. He had to use items to stem the blood flow. The ambulance arrived and commended his actions.

Fast forward to today. The postie informed his DOM of the incident only to be told the following: Note that this DOM is responsible for the first aid box contents being up to date

You are not a trained first-aider, you should have left her until the ambulance arrived.
You used out of date items on the lady
I manage the stairs every day and have never fallen
There are 4 steps outside my house, which I've never fallen down
The fact that the stairs were unlit is not relevant

So, from being a 'hero' in assisting the lady the postie is now almost being blamed for the incident.

[krussel]

Typical really, hero to zero

Bit like that train driver who helped many at the Hatfield rail crash and then got sacked for taking time off sick to deal with it.

[TeeferTiger]

Regardless of whether he was first aid trained or not, you use the most sterile items you have to hand. You would assume that the items in a first aid would be the case.

I'm sure the old lady's solicitor will see that the postie's actions are commended and the DOM's condemned... I'd make sure she knows!

[ass asin]

im sure unlit dangerous stairs and ood first aid items wood come under the managers remit with regards to h and s. and of course no rgistered first aider on site

[Himaggen]

Make sure that your H&S Rep, (or IR Rep if you dont have one), knows about this and forces the Manager either directly of through the Area Safety Rep to undertake their legal responsibilities.

The Manager will obviously have a suitable Risk Assessment for the use of the stairs and will have ensured that all hazards highlighted in that risk assessment were reduced to the lowest level reasonably practicable, (such as adequate lighting). He will have recorded the accident into ERICA and because this was a RIDDOR, the ASR and subsequently the Authorities will be brought in to investigate it.

[arty_morty]

Make sure that your H&S Rep, (or IR Rep if you dont have one), knows about this and forces the Manager either directly of through the Area Safety Rep to undertake their legal responsibilities.

The Manager will obviously have a suitable Risk Assessment for the use of the stairs and will have ensured that all hazards highlighted in that risk assessment were reduced to the lowest level reasonably practicable, (such as adequate lighting). He will have recorded the accident into ERICA and because this was a RIDDOR, the ASR and subsequently the Authorities will be brought in to investigate it.

I'm emailing this to myself so I can show it to the postie concerned tomorrow. Thanks.

[bakerstreetirregular]

Best of luck when the "ambulance chasers" come after the postie. The RM will have itself covered, but I don't fancy the posties chances especially as RM liabilty insurance won't cover him!.

[TeeferTiger]

Why would they come after the postie? The good samaritan act/law whatever should prevent him from prosecuted for helping her. If anything, he could've been prosecuted for doing nothing.

The fault/blame/whatever lies firmly with the owner of the premises and the PIC and the person responsible for the first aid kit contents... Which at my old office was me, and the contents (of both) were checked on a monthly basis to ensure it was fully stocked and all in date.

[bakerstreetirregular]

There is no "Good Samaritan" Act, the RM is not responsible for the actions of its employees outside of their normal job roles so a postman going to the aid of a customer leaves himself open to civil action as administering first aid when they are not trained. The reason why the RM sends all its First Aiders on its specific course is to ensure that they are all trained to a suitable level of competency to carry out all first aid expected of them in their role as RM First Aiders irrespective of any prior experience or knowledge.Another issue who is responsible for upkeeping of the exterior stairs, i.e ROMEC and if the fault has already been logged by the DOM and reported to whoever is responsible he will have been seen to have discharged his H&S duties. I do agree with you regards the first aid box, that it should have been checked at regular periods , but where was the RM first aider in all this?.Surely they are responsible for highlighting any defiencies in the first aid kit to the DOM as they will have been told on there first aid course what should be in the box at any one time.

[TeeferTiger]

There is no "Good Samaritan" Act, the RM is not responsible for the actions of its employees outside of their normal job roles so a postman going to the aid of a customer leaves himself open to civil action as administering first aid when they are not trained. The reason why the RM sends all its First Aiders on its specific course is to ensure that they are all trained to a suitable level of competency to carry out all first aid expected of them in their role as RM First Aiders irrespective of any prior experience or knowledge.Another issue who is responsible for upkeeping of the exterior stairs, i.e ROMEC and if the fault has already been logged by the DOM and reported to whoever is responsible he will have been seen to have discharged his H&S duties. I do agree with you regards the first aid box, that it should have been checked at regular periods , but where was the RM first aider in all this?.Surely they are responsible for highlighting any defiencies in the first aid kit to the DOM as they will have been told on there first aid course what should be in the box at any one time.

No, I know there is no "act" as such. However, no court would, if they were worth their salt, find the postman guilty of any wrong doing for trying to help.

What if the DOM was the RM first aider? At two of the offices I used to cover occasionally, there was no first aider at either site. At one site they listed a reserve fire fighter as the fire officer (without his consent) and then listed him as the first aid officer too! When I said to the DSM a few years back about going on a first aid refresher course (as I was entitled to), I was told I could put myself down for it, but that it wouldn't get authorised because he was being tight with money... So, with that kind of attitude going on, are you surprised that this kind of thing has happened?!

[DGP1]

Best of luck when the "ambulance chasers" come after the postie. The RM will have itself covered, but I don't fancy the posties chances especially as RM liabilty insurance won't cover him!.

You've been reading the Daily Mail too much The only way the person could be sued would be if the person actually caused more injury in trying to help (and even then I doubt it would even get as far as court).

[TeeferTiger]

Best of luck when the "ambulance chasers" come after the postie. The RM will have itself covered, but I don't fancy the posties chances especially as RM liabilty insurance won't cover him!.

You've been reading the Daily Mail too much The only way the person could be sued would be if the person actually caused more injury in trying to help (and even then I doubt it would even get as far as court).

And the only way I could see him causing more harm than good would be if she had a serious injury and he moved her (unless she was in further danger) or the dressings he used were so badly out of date that they were deteriorated. However, even someone who isn't first aid trained would know better than to put on a crumbling bandage so I doubt he'll have done any harm at all.

As long as he provided her reassurance and kept her company until the ambulance arrived, that's the main thing. And I'm sure the ambulance people wouldn't have been backwards in coming forwards if he'd done something wrong tbh... they're not usually...

[dvbuk55]

Should there not be "wheelchair" access to a public building? So why was an old lady usiing stairs? Our office is wheelchair friendly including an automatic door and we have a disabled toilet despite having no one who is disabled.

[TeeferTiger]

Some offices have both? Just because she was older, doesn't mean she was decrepit. I think the main points to consider were that there was no first aider on site and the first aid box contents were out of date. The patient could've been a young, able bodied person who lost their footing due to the stairs being poorly lit.