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Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Postal workers discussion forum. Discuss the day to day life in a Blue Shirt.
krussel
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Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by krussel »

Has anyone got anything good to say about Park & Loop following a Georoute revision :hmmmm

My local office (not mine) has been a totally mess since they started in the summer. On most days i do not receive any mail till around 5pm which has come out on OT or part of a SA collection duty. Speaking to the local posties its just cut off's after cut off's and has been this way for months since Georoute. The Managers claim it CAN be done and blame the posties for not trying and the posties say the deliveries are simply too long. One guy i spoke to said they cannot get all the mail (18 bags worth) in the van in one go due to the weight :shock:

We are under threat of a Georoute revision in the new year :sad: So how can it get things so wrong ?
Rows of houses all bearing down on me........I can feel their blue hands touching me.......All these things in all positions.........All these things will one day take control..........
andy2007
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by andy2007 »

Because it's designed to save money, by assuming the best case scenario every day, and providing enough work to get you to your full duty hours. Sadly, as we all know, you rarely get a best case scenario. For example: They assume that the workload is dropping. They assume that everyone can walk at the same speed, regardless of traffic (e.g. crossing the roads), no delays from people asking you things, etc., etc., the list goes on. :hmmmm
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fishtank
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by fishtank »

1. Poor planning.
2. Inbuilt but unmeasurable inefficiencies.
3. De-motivation of staff.
4. Management.

Poor planning

Planning using complex systems like georoute and the IWT takes a great deal of knowledge of both the system and the job you are planning,the planners i have met have little knowledge of either,not entirely their fault because the were not chosen for their planning experience but shoe-horned into a job with very little training which they were ill-equipped for....another example of RM trying to do things on the cheap and wasting a fortune in the process.

Inbuilt but unmeasurable inefficiencies.

You can plan for a lot of things but you can't plan for a set of temporary traffic lights,a customer who can't find their keys,your partner being a bit slower,a missed packet,a queue in the shop,people asking for directions,the list is endless...all of these inefficiencies are doubled under park&loop.
All it takes is 5mins a loop and after 6 40min loops you're half an hour behind...and half an hour in park&loop money is an hour.

De-motivation of staff.

If you have your own walk you are rightly or wrongly motivated to complete it,if something holds you up for 5 mins you will in most cases attempt to make that time up,sometimes it's just a sub-concious thing but you will.
Under Park&Loop,especially with an unachievable starting point there is absolutely no motivation to do anything other than work at an acceptable pace...why would you?

Management.

Management's answer to failure as always is to blame the staff,it's the biggest mistake you can make as a manager even when it is true,it's on page 1 of "management for idiots" and they still do it.
If you introduce change and you want it to work you have to engage the workforce.they,unfortunately have struggled to engage their brains.
Management have always,still are and probably always will be the weakest link in Royal Mail.

I would also say that i don't think Georoute was ever really suited to the kind of planning involved in this kind of job,i think RM were sold a pig in a poke with that one.
Nothing new there.

That's my take on why it's such a balls up wherever it's gone,there are other reasons like poor help,training and support for our reps from our side but it was never going to be pretty if all you have to work with is crap.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
eastie
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by eastie »

You talk about things that slow you down on P/L.
My driver was 10 minutes late today for one of my loop dropoffs and it was down to a delivery driver blocking off a cul-de-sac whilst he had a crap in a customers house :shock:
krussel
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by krussel »

fishtank wrote:1. Poor planning.
2. Inbuilt but unmeasurable inefficiencies.
3. De-motivation of staff.
4. Management.
Thanks fish as always a logical ans :Applause

Another problem is RM totally un-flexible approach to failure. Its quite clear that my home address delivery is failing every day and has done for weeks. Now there are a number of shops and businesses at the end of my street and iam sure they would have complained by now. It just seems that managers are happy to keep flogging a dead horse without addressing the problem of the deliver failing.

I think this is especially worse as the Park & Loop sytem has failed during the lighter summer months then what chance does it have as Christmas approaching. :shock:
Rows of houses all bearing down on me........I can feel their blue hands touching me.......All these things in all positions.........All these things will one day take control..........
The Quiet Man
EX ROYAL MAIL
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by The Quiet Man »

I'd say creating a Model Week using average traffic figures from week 11-17 (June/July) is one of the main reasons for the problems.....built to fail! :confused

Why can't they have an average of the last 52 weeks? (minus xmas and weeks with a bank holiday in it)....oh, that's right, apparently they'd have to 'flex DOWN' :left:
krussel
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by krussel »

We have been told that when P&L come's in to my WORK office we may have to flex up to 30 mins each day, up and down, to allow for traffic figures and bulk postings. To be honest we are not happy with that but my HOME delivery is failing by over an hour which is well beyond any traffic fluctuations.
Rows of houses all bearing down on me........I can feel their blue hands touching me.......All these things in all positions.........All these things will one day take control..........
fishtank
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by fishtank »

krussel wrote:We have been told that when P&L come's in to my WORK office we may have to flex up to 30 mins each day.
No individual member has to flex up.
An office may have to flex up but it's up to management to cover that with volunteers.
The flexibility agreement in P&M2007 and "flexing up" as an office resource plan are two entirely different things.
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clashcityrocker
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by clashcityrocker »

fishtank wrote: The flexibility agreement in P&M2007 and "flexing up" as an office resource plan are two entirely different things.
It seems to be causing a lot of confusion though.
Perhaps Bob and Rob could put out a joint statement clarifying things.
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not me
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by not me »

park & loop is great
small loops
weight off the shoulder
teamwork
a van do work from,store jackets,food etc
no pouching off

however when you add oversized duties and unrealistic workloads the above becomes moot
krussel
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by krussel »

fishtank wrote:
krussel wrote:We have been told that when P&L come's in to my WORK office we may have to flex up to 30 mins each day.
No individual member has to flex up.
An office may have to flex up but it's up to management to cover that with volunteers.
The flexibility agreement in P&M2007 and "flexing up" as an office resource plan are two entirely different things.
Trouble is fish this is what our rep is discussing with the dom. I am sure we will get a vote nearer the time as iam dead against it but if the other sheep are swept along it may go through. :roll:

I think our rep is trying to ease the finish time on a sat with the understanding we will be flexible within the week. Nothing is in writing yet but you know how folks are :d'oh!
Rows of houses all bearing down on me........I can feel their blue hands touching me.......All these things in all positions.........All these things will one day take control..........
Oldham600
MAIL CENTRES/PROCESSING
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by Oldham600 »

Georoute is rubbish for planning collections aswell, I am a rep currently involved in our yearly collections review where the business want hours/blood out of a stone, this programme is a waste of time and any routes it has spewed out have had to be redone properly.

As far as I can see it only takes into consideration road speeds, no traffic lights, countless mini-roundabouts etc which when testing routes this week I have found the proposals totally flawed.

Mind you what else would you expect from Royal Mail
fishtank
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by fishtank »

krussel wrote: Trouble is fish this is what our rep is discussing with the dom. I am sure we will get a vote nearer the time as iam dead against it but if the other sheep are swept along it may go through. :roll:
Any revision based on the use of compulsory overtime/flexing up as a resourcing plan is unlikely to be sanctioned.
Although these are local revisions they must sit inside national guidelines.
This kind of thing,as well as being seriously "iffy" legally would undermine existing national agreements.
Our version of compulsory-ish :left: overtime is called Scheduled Attendance,it is a national agreement,attracts a premium and would be undermined by your local agreement.
Thankfully i think what your rep and Dom are discussing is a non-starter.
good times, bad times you know I've had my share
krussel
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by krussel »

fishtank wrote:Thankfully i think what your rep and Dom are discussing is a non-starter.
I hope so fish, i really do. :sad:

We had a meeting a while back and the sticking point was a longer day on a sat as there was talk of a 2pm or even a 3pm finish :shock: So our rep went back and said "no way" to that :Very Happy BUT thats when to talk of flexing came up.

Trouble is as soon as people are told the longer sat has been knocked on the head thats all they hear. :roll:

Its a total mess around my home address, did not get any mail till gone 5pm today :d'oh!
Rows of houses all bearing down on me........I can feel their blue hands touching me.......All these things in all positions.........All these things will one day take control..........
keithposty
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Re: Why does Georoute Park & Loop fail so badly ?

Post by keithposty »

Its a total mess around my home address, did not get any mail till gone 5pm today

mention to your dom the uso then

mail is not to be delivered aftr 3 pm for town and 4 pm for rural eliveries

it seems this practice is outside the uso