grievance over the 40 min break.

[daveyeff]

i know this subject is ongoing, but i need an answer on this one pretty quickly. a colleague is going in to lodge his grievance tomorrow, as he says he has the right to take his full 40 mins break before he goes out. we are currently on a 20 before, then 20 on the back of the shift. it was voted in by staff because they were told if they voted in favour of the full 40 before going out, then they would be expected to take the full 40 on a saturday as well making it a 3pm finish. so basically it was obvious management were ''forcing our hand'' to take a 20/20 format as nobody wanted THAT late a finish on a saturday. anyways the dom has said to the rep that he,s looked it up thoroughly and we are only really entitled to 20 mins anyway. the other 20 is a common courtesy. so he says the lad putting the grievance in basically has,nt got a hope in hell of winning. does any of you reps or anyone on here for that matter, know how we stand on this. cos i for one want my full 40 mins. i voted against the 20/20 format. even if it meant losing a sooner saturday, cos the way i see it is our saturday is more or less fekt anyway, so can anyone please advise.....ta.

[keithposty]

Lets seperate fact from fiction

under the working time directive and employment rights act, the basic minimum break allowed is 20 minutes for six hours and 30 minutes for eight hours,

now through negotiation in the past, royal mail and the cwu negotiated a 40 minute break for an eight hour period. that now is fact and law and cannot be changed.

the rep stating the other 20 minutes is a gift is talking boll---s and should be ashamed of him/her self.
any rep unsure on legislation needs to get confirmation from branch or they will lose all respect by the members if wrong.

you cannot take your break off the end of your duty, period if you are a full time member of staff on a 40 hour contract, 8 hour day

now on the second bit of your question

did you all vote via a collective agreement on the 20-20 break issue
how was the vote done
did the area rep sign it off
how long has this 20-20 break been in progress

[fishtank]

Not a hope davey...not with a grievance.

1.It's a local agreement voted for by the members.
2.It follows the guidelines set out in the Way Forward which is still valid for meal breaks.

Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

The actual pattern of breaks within these rules will be agreed locally.

Having said that i can't really think of any sound business need for you to take your break in two parts unless you are scheduled to finish well after 3pm or your delivery span plus travelling is over 6hrs so have you tried the "sit down and have an adult discussion" route or is your Dom just being a tosser about it?

[daveyeff]

Lets seperate fact from fiction

under the working time directive and employment rights act, the basic minimum break allowed is 20 minutes for six hours and 30 minutes for eight hours,

now through negotiation in the past, royal mail and the cwu negotiated a 40 minute break for an eight hour period. that now is fact and law and cannot be changed.

the rep stating the other 20 minutes is a gift is talking boll---s and should be ashamed of him/her self.
any rep unsure on legislation needs to get confirmation from branch or they will lose all respect by the members if wrong.

you cannot take your break off the end of your duty, period if you are a full time member of staff on a 40 hour contract, 8 hour day

now on the second bit of your question

did you all vote via a collective agreement on the 20-20 break issue
how was the vote done
did the area rep sign it off
how long has this 20-20 break been in progress

you misunderstood,its the dom that said it was a common courtesy not the rep, the vote was done by ballot paper. some did,nt get a vote due to annual leave/sick etc.

[keithposty]

how long ago was the vote done

what percentage of staff did not vote

sick
holiday
afternoon staff

was 28 days minimum notice given on the vote

[daveyeff]

Not a hope davey...not with a grievance.

1.It's a local agreement voted for by the members.
2.It follows the guidelines set out in the Way Forward which is still valid for meal breaks.

Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

The actual pattern of breaks within these rules will be agreed locally.

Having said that i can't really think of any sound business need for you to take your break in two parts unless you are scheduled to finish well after 3pm or your delivery span plus travelling is over 6hrs so have you tried the "sit down and have an adult discussion" route or is your Dom just being a tosser about it?

well fish, it does say we could have 20/20 or 40, but the former was voted in cos of later saturdays as i said. but,,,is he allowed by his rights to take his full 40 mins before he goes out, regardless of what was voted in?? its a right mix up is this. and it needs total clarity by the heirarchy

[daveyeff]

how long ago was the vote done

what percentage of staff did not vote

sick
holiday
afternoon staff

was 28 days minimum notice given on the vote

about 8 or 9 did,nt get a vote due to sick/holidays etc, so it would,nt have mattered cos about 29 voted yes, the rest abstained. its been in since june this year. 28 days was given before the vote. but can you opt to take your 40mins as an individual. regardless of what the rest do?? i need an answer.

[keithposty]

simple answer is no

local agreements are the only time statute provision can be over turned

i was trying for you on not following the ir framwork

sorry you do not want to hear this but at the moment i am in weekly planning metings debating just this subject prior to our revision

[PhilthyPhil]

What is your attendance length on saturday? In my office it is a shorter day so we only get 30 mins break which can not be split and should be taken before we go out.

[hans solo]

fcukin pis if u want full break take it i would take rm to court over this

[keithposty]

fcukin pis if u want full break take it i would take rm to court over this

on what grounds

a local agreement becomes an implied term in your contract of employment

royal mail can sue you for breach of contract

i am getting realy piss&d off with reps allowing this crap on the promise of early saturdays

once they get this crap in by the back door saturday will be a normal working day

3pm finish

where the hell are the area reps at these meetings

[fishtank]

fcukin pis if u want full break take it i would take rm to court over this

The only legal entitlement is 20mins.
This has to be as near as is reasonably possible to the middle of your working day.
The other 20mins is over and above the legal minimum and therefore not covered by the working time regulations.
When it is taken is subject to local agreement...in this case at the end.
I personally don't like it,but that means nothing...at our place individual members have the choice but the default position is 40mins so that if one member of a park&loop team wants to take 40mins...they both do...no argument.

[POSTMAN]

Can't figure this out,your office voted it in just like mine did,now you've got a member who doesn't want it,well tbf it's tough,a vote has been made by the office and that's it.
Your colleague has to swallow it.You now have a workplan/revision based on this.

[REDLETTER]

fcukin pis if u want full break take it i would take rm to court over this

on what grounds

a local agreement becomes an implied term in your contract of employment

royal mail can sue you for breach of contract

i am getting realy piss&d off with reps allowing this crap on the promise of early saturdays

once they get this crap in by the back door saturday will be a normal working day

3pm finish

where the hell are the area reps at these meetings

If you try that with the shoe on the other foot RM don't honour any "implied terms" to your contract.

[hans solo]

fcukin pis if u want full break take it i would take rm to court over this

The only legal entitlement is 20mins.
This has to be as near as is reasonably possible to the middle of your working day.
The other 20mins is over and above the legal minimum and therefore not covered by the working time regulations.
When it is taken is subject to local agreement...in this case at the end.
I personally don't like it,but that means nothing...at our place individual members have the choice but the default position is 40mins so that if one member of a park&loop team wants to take 40mins...they both do...no argument.

in that case i would then take 20 mins later on which could involve 20 min drive back to del office then another 20 back to del bring it on they cannot have it both ways.