New deal and its postives!!!

[steven100]

Is their any???????

The way i see it is compulsory redudancies, sorry voluntary .
Later saturday finishes for nothing, no footie etc.

[bedfordrl]

Nope.

I will add to that loss of payments for D2Ds (for the guys and gals with huge frames and carrying up to six D2Ds the loss is substantial)and loss of early start allowance.

[not me]

Nope.

I will add to that loss of payments for D2Ds (for the guys and gals with huge frames and carrying up to six D2Ds the loss is substantial)and loss of early start allowance.

well its a positive for those who wqork indoors or get no/little D2Ds
we have one duty that gets 6 (yes 6 calls) of D2D
not bad for 20 odd quid
not so good for those on 900 calls.......

[97gaz]

W

[Pinky 1]

We can Beat that. we have a delivery that gets one D2D. Not one contract but 1 D2D. It's a cottage that was originally in the area where an industrial estate sits.

Crikey gaz, you're not a Taff are you ? We've got one of them too

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

We can Beat that. we have a delivery that gets one D2D. Not one contract but 1 D2D. It's a cottage that was originally in the area where an industrial estate sits.

we have one duty that gets 6 (yes 6 calls) of D2D
not bad for 20 odd quid
.......

That's all well and good, but you are both missing a crutial point... Delivery Supplement is not related to D2D in any shape or form!

[spoodoo]

weve loads guys whove had to give up there season tickets for footy ,some have been going for 20 odd years , its a crying shame !!!! ones a wigan fan tho so hes a lucky boy!

[not me]

We can Beat that. we have a delivery that gets one D2D. Not one contract but 1 D2D. It's a cottage that was originally in the area where an industrial estate sits.

we have one duty that gets 6 (yes 6 calls) of D2D
not bad for 20 odd quid
.......

That's all well and good, but you are both missing a crutial point... Delivery Supplement is not related to D2D in any shape or form!

no you are missing the point
the point is its a pay cut for many
I know it doesnt relate to D2Ds but it coincided with the removal of D2D payments
on the old walk i had
it was over £10 a week loss on an average week

[Royal_Fail]

Only good point in our office is more saturdays off.I think it was used as a sweetener to get people to vote revision in now we are short every saturday so we have new starters to cover people who have every sat and mon off.

All other points are crap imo including 39hr week,weight off shoulder would be nice but i don't think its been timed right with trolleys and don't even get me started on d2d

[bedfordrl]

We can Beat that. we have a delivery that gets one D2D. Not one contract but 1 D2D. It's a cottage that was originally in the area where an industrial estate sits.

we have one duty that gets 6 (yes 6 calls) of D2D
not bad for 20 odd quid
.......

That's all well and good, but you are both missing a crutial point... Delivery Supplement is not related to D2D in any shape or form!

no you are missing the point
the point is its a pay cut for many
I know it doesnt relate to D2Ds but it coincided with the removal of D2D payments
on the old walk i had
it was over £10 a week loss on an average week

Yes and I bet that is based on three D2Ds not six.

[Godric]

Is their any???????

The way i see it is compulsory redudancies, sorry voluntary .
Later saturday finishes for nothing, no footie etc.

we have to adhere to it whilst Royal Mail can ignore the parts they don't like ..... that about covers the jist of the deal

[Martin Walsh]

There are a number of positives , of course it does depend on your perspective.

The agreement gives 3 pay rises not bad consiidering there is a public sector pay freeze. Those who have worked in the industry for a period of time will remember the public sector pay limits and freezes during the 1990s.

The agreement has an overarching principle of no compulsory redundancies. No many unions has sercured such a commitment given the scale of change and the financial position of the company.

it committs the company to 3 years of pay protection and the MTSF agreement which is on par with the best in industry.

It has a commitment of 75 - 25. Percentage of full timers national figure after the 3 year deployment of the agreement which includes walk sequencing . No other EU company has managed to protect that ratio of full timers after the deployment of walk sequencing.

The agreement protects part timers from having their hours reduced be that in mail centres or delivery offices.

It has a £1000 in lump sums and an hour reduction in the working week which is the equivalent of 2% pay rise for part timers.

There is improved attendances on offer.

The delivery supplement has already increased with this years pay rise , it is a permanent addition to basic pay. Remember how many people are starting at 0500 or before 0530 after a walk sequencing.revision or did you expect Royal Mail to continue to pay you an allowance Which you qualified for as a result of starting early but you now start after 0600. Now at the moment only 0.6 million addresses get 6 items per week. The vast majority of addresses 20 million out of 28 million get 3 or less.

We have a delivery revision agreement which has meant Royal Mail have failed to either make the savings they targeted or they have failed to introduce the revisions. Royal Mail are well behind on revisions hence why they have extended the business plan and hence they are in talks with the union.

Of course there are bad things which most don't like , later starts , later finshes , later Saturdays , park and loop , longer spans and door to door.

However all of those were inevitable once Royal Mail purchased CSS machines and CDVs as the work plan had to change as a mail centre clears on its outward after 2200 and the distant mail centre from your mail centre then has to then get it to your mail centre by air or road hence the new work plan getting work later to your delivery office Monday - saturday.

Dont expect many to agree but that's life.

[not me]

no compulsory redundancies

maybe,but many leaving through the conditions in the work place(in DOs anyway)
there seems little chance of VR for those in delivery so its put up or get out

£1000 lump sum

I'll give you that,however in place of D2D its nothing. on 3 D2D its about 6 months D2D on my old walk
thats £1k after tax,not the pre tax £1k payment

Of course there are bad things which most don't like , later starts , later finshes , later Saturdays , park and loop , longer spans and door to door.

However all of those were inevitable once Royal Mail purchased CSS machines and CDVs as the work plan had to change as a mail centre clears on its outward after 2200 and the distant mail centre from your mail centre then has to then get it to your mail centre by air or road hence the new work plan getting work later to your delivery office Monday - saturday.

i suppose it easy to lump all that together and say thats just how it is.
having gone P&L over 2 years ago. there is constant bullying & harassment in the DOs
staff have left or are in fear of their job. particularly those in the late 40/50s age group(im not in that group) who have real fears what will happen to them if they dont conform to RM

[TrueBlueTerrier]

There are a number of positives , of course it does depend on your perspective.

It does and here is my perspective, warts and all.

The agreement gives 3 pay rises not bad considering there is a public sector pay freeze. Those who have worked in the industry for a period of time will remember the public sector pay limits and freezes during the 1990s.

Yes measured against a pay freeze it "looks" good but considering the last 5 years pay rises (1 year we didn't get one) were all below the recognised rates of inflation it does not look so good - again it depends on your perspective and what you want to measure it against.

The agreement has an overarching principle of no compulsory redundancies. No many unions has secured such a commitment given the scale of change and the financial position of the company.

Very fine achievement in principle, but it really something the CWU gained or is it really something the business always had in my mind - it's certainly something RM have trumpeted since I started.

it commits the company to 3 years of pay protection and the MTSF agreement which is on par with the best in industry.

Was the 3 year pay protection under threat, I wasn't aware of that. As to the MTSF agreement - it may well be in the best in industry but why is there such confusion over its application in so many scenarios. An agreement should be measured not only what it helps to improve or keep, but how easy it is it interpret and understand.

It has a commitment of 75 - 25. Percentage of full timers national figure after the 3 year deployment of the agreement which includes walk sequencing . No other EU company has managed to protect that ratio of full timers after the deployment of walk sequencing.

75/25 split is excellent for units who are above this split - but it means nothing for units like mine 55/45. Nothing in the agreement allows you to increase FT ratio. So in places that are above the 75/25 split units like mine are subsidising their FTs ratio.

The agreement protects part timers from having their hours reduced be that in mail centres or delivery offices.

That was good and the Union should be applauded for it.

It has a £1000 in lump sums and an hour reduction in the working week which is the equivalent of 2% pay rise for part timers.

Sorry but I am intrinsically against getting lump sums for an agreement - my time in RM has led me to believe that the cost to our T&Cs outweighs a brief boost to our wages, more so when the "targets" for achieving the bonus seem so nebulous at office level.

There is improved attendances on offer.

If you are a strong office, with a strong area - luckily we are and we probably will get the attendance that we want.. But you hear on here of many Units being advised by RM (which I understand) that they can't do that particular attendance pattern, and the Union advising them to accept it (which I find amazing).

The delivery supplement has already increased with this years pay rise , it is a permanent addition to basic pay. Remember how many people are starting at 0500 or before 0530 after a walk sequencing.revision or did you expect Royal Mail to continue to pay you an allowance Which you qualified for as a result of starting early but you now start after 0600. Now at the moment only 0.6 million addresses get 6 items per week. The vast majority of addresses 20 million out of 28 million get 3 or less.

Loss of D2D payment by the amount you deliver and loss of ESA against a £20+ a week supplement (pro-rata) was never going to be popular I am amazed that the CWU thought it was.

We have a delivery revision agreement which has meant Royal Mail have failed to either make the savings they targeted or they have failed to introduce the revisions. Royal Mail are well behind on revisions hence why they have extended the business plan and hence they are in talks with the union.

I am not sure if you are saying the Union are proud of slowing down the revisions because of the agreement, or that we got the business back to the table because the agreement had failings. If it was the first why then was the original agreement so openly sold as the best agreement we could get. If it was the second then why weren't the naysayers, of which there were lots of on RMC, listened to and their views taken into account.

Of course there are bad things which most don't like , later starts , later finishes , later Saturdays , park and loop , longer spans and door to door.

No but that should have put us into a stronger position, not used as a reason to accept what appears to be a flawed agreement and business plan.

However all of those were inevitable once Royal Mail purchased CSS machines and CDVs as the work plan had to change as a mail centre clears on its outward after 2200 and the distant mail centre from your mail centre then has to then get it to your mail centre by air or road hence the new work plan getting work later to your delivery office Monday - saturday.

Only in Royal Mail would a system be introduced to make the system more efficient, actually make the progress through it slower.

Dont expect many to agree but that's life.

I don't expect people to agree with me either, but then if we all agreed it wouldn't be an interesting debate and we might as well all have joined the CMA instead.