meal relief

[hans solo]

west of scotland told this morning all persons will be taking meal reliefs as of next week
due to 2nd stage disagreement to move starting times ,39 hr week ,1 in 4 sats
css machines have been implemented and walk seq has started.
not bothered about taking breaks but not happy about times of break 8am or 8.30am we were told .
surely it should be in middle of day as per govmt legislation.
start times of mon 6am tue 6.30 am wed 6am thur fri 5.45 am and sat 5.30am
so with tue after 30 min wtl we would be sorting for 1-1.30 hr then break
where do we stand on times breaks should be taken line manager says we can be forced to take break when it suits business after 1 0r 2 hrs
and legally we can be made to work 6 hrs without break later on in day
after questioning this i was told by line mgr if he is told by his mgr breaks at 8.30 he will tell me same and thats it.
could be canteen job tmrrw tamsky what you think

[wayoutman]

i seem to think the FT meal relief is 20mins + 20mins and they can put the first 20 mins anywhere they like but 20 mins should be reserved for the middle of your shift.

for part time, in our DO they had 20 or 30mins depending on weekly hours, both the 20 and 30 mins was deemed to be one allocation of meal relief and must be in the middle of your shift.

we had to fight the same last year as management were being arsey.

read up on "grace breaks" too.
think its in the wayforward agreement, reads something like....

10 mins grace break is allowed on top of allocated meal relief if time allows, if time is tight you are entitled to a short break to sit and have a

i did a load of research on here and fishtank sorted a document or 2 for me.
presented the lot to the area rep.

[wayoutman]

found it! way forward page 23.

---------------------------------------------------
Breaks at the beginning or end of attendance

Where an attendance is provided with more than one break, the second break may be scheduled at the beginning or end, in which case attendance is not required solely for booking on or off. A single break should not be scheduled at the beginning or end of the attendance.

Grace Breaks

When work permits a grace break of 10 minutes, over and above the standard entitlements, should be allowed on all indoor and outdoor jobs. In no circumstances should this be scheduled. Where it is not possible to provide a grace break before going out on first delivery the employee should be given the chance to have cup of tea before leaving the office.

[edwardo]

our office new start times , 22 August 6.45 start tues start 7.30 dont know start times for rest of week ,hope to get print out by then stating start time and breaks although managers not the sharpest tool in the box finishing time is 2.45 pm every day !

[fishtank]

Why would any office want different start times on different days.
Changing your alarm clock every night.your late attendance will go through the roof...it's madness.
I assume the mail arrives the same time every day so....why?

[Brainache]

Grace Break -
If time permits before going out on delivery to have a meal relief, shouldn`t 10 minutes of that be a grace break ?

[blackadder]

Why would any office want different start times on different days.
Changing your alarm clock every night.your late attendance will go through the roof...it's madness.
I assume the mail arrives the same time every day so....why?

just think how many more they can sack doing it this way

[fishtank]

I remember Grace Breaks.
Once the IPS was up the boss would shout "10 minute tea break" and off we popped.
Different times...before SDD,Pegasus,P&M2007,IWT and all that bollocks.
We had watnots in those days too.

[Himaggen]

Why would any office want different start times on different days.
Changing your alarm clock every night.your late attendance will go through the roof...it's madness.
I assume the mail arrives the same time every day so....why?

I'm guessing that the start times aren't simply shifting the daily hours forward or backward by 45 minutes, but longs and shorts. (less time allocated to lighter days, more time for heavier ones.)

[fishtank]

I'm guessing that the start times aren't simply shifting the daily hours forward or backward by 45 minutes, but longs and shorts. (less time allocated to lighter days, more time for heavier ones.)

I know what long and shorts are Himaggen but the sensible thing to do with long and shorts is keep the same start time and adjust the finishing time.
Why anyone would choose to adjust the start times is beyond me.
Talk about making something easy...difficult.

[motherhubbard]

the sensible thing to do with long and shorts is keep the same start time and adjust the finishing time.
Why anyone would choose to adjust the start times is beyond me.
Talk about making something easy...difficult.

This seems like such a sensible idea.
Why then is yours apparently the only office in the UK that does it.

Our start times used to be things like 5.39.
What sort of idiot would dream that up?

[Himaggen]

When we have marked differences in quantity of mail, those differences have less of an impact on the outdoor work than the indoor. (You still have to go to most of the delivery points, just with less items for each). This means that the indoor element is where they need to adjust the hours accordingly. (where the biggest impact in quantity is felt).

It is apparently easier to manage, (enforce non agreed performance standards), the indoor element under your noses than to control the outdoor element spread over a very large area. Therefore everyone finishes at the same time, and the employees each start at a time which is relevant to their hours. In an office with 3:00pm finish if you are on an 8hr day, you will start work at 7:00. If georoute says your outdoor element is 4hrs 30mins and the indoor element of that duty is 1hr 20mins, +40 mins meal relief, i.e. 2 hours, you will be managed to produce 1hr 30mins work on IPS, duty preparation etc. to make up your time. This will mean 'prepping' duties for those people starting later due to being on 5, 6, 6½hrs etc.
Whilst all similar duties are designed to have similar outdoor times, some have very large differences in their indoor element. A duty with 400 bungalows with long drives may take as long to deliver as a predominantly terraced duty with 1200 houses. The terraced duty will have far more work to do indoors, in the past they were not compensated for this, they worked a little harder whilst the 400 dp duty did less.
The new tools provide data for the amount of work indoors according to traffic, the Managers simply bang the traffic figures into it, it tells them how long it should take each indoor worker to perform each of their tasks and they manage those tasks to ensure that they are done within those figures.
Of course on occasions where there is a significant drop in traffic, there will be some reduction in outdoor time which is where lapsing is introduced too.

Once a revision has been undertaken, hybrid duties are created too where collections are added to some duties which have time stipulations. It follows therefore that their finish times cannot change, only their start times.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

the sensible thing to do with long and shorts is keep the same start time and adjust the finishing time.
Why anyone would choose to adjust the start times is beyond me.
Talk about making something easy...difficult.

This seems like such a sensible idea.
Why then is yours apparently the only office in the UK that does it.

We do it as well - the start time is 0630 except saturday 0615

Finish times vary across week from 1330 earliest PT to 1500 FT latest

[fishtank]

It is apparently easier to manage, (enforce non agreed performance standards), the indoor element under your noses than to control the outdoor element spread over a very large area.

Indoor time/outdoor time...it's immaterial.
Long and shorts don't reduce one over the other they reduce/increase duty times.
In the case of our "short" days we leave the office earlier,still leaving the appropriate delivery span with an earlier finish.
On a late...we leave later...the delivery span does not change.
I would ask this question of those moving to a 0700 start with variable long and short start times.
If your office is capable of starting at say 0630 on a long day...why are you moving to 0700 starts at all?