Flexibility issues - vague agreement

[CharlesSpooner]

I'm sure plenty on here has read the 2007 Pay&Mod Agreement many times over but I'll put it here again just to help frame my question

• Variation of hours – Where necessary, for example when traffic volumes are unexpectedly high or resourcing issues arise, individuals may be asked and may themselves request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes on a swings and roundabouts basis. Again, individual circumstances will be taken into account and total weekly contractual hours would not change.

Our office is currently phasing in a revision and there has been an issue with the size of the HCT deliveries. A couple of posties have tried cutting off and the DIM has claimed that Flex means they can be made to work 30 mins longer on any particular day and then attend 30 mins later the following morning to recoup it in accordance with the agreement.

The DIM does however seem to bend his perception of the agreement's wording on a daily basis according to what needs doing.

From going through the threads on here I'm wondering if there is an official agreement on the following...

1 - How much notice should be given by managers when requesting employees to adjust attendance patterns?

2 - "Individuals may be asked" doesn't really indicate whether it is compulsory or voluntarily. Is there an official answer or is it a matter of managers and employees arguing about the semantics of the P&M Agreement when a flexing issue arises?

3 - Are managers obliged to give a definite answer on when the time will be given back and are they similarly obliged to do so within a certain period of time when an employee is asked to "flex"?

4 - Can "resourcing issues" refer to foreseen absences/vacant duties and be used by managers to request employees to "flex"? I personally have no problem with foreseen absences/vacant duties being absorbed within normal fixed hours where there is time but we have seen managers try to use flexibility to put 30 mins onto individuals workdays in order to give that individual the required time to absorb part of a different duty which has been left deliberately unstaffed. That to me looks as if they are using flex as a standard staffing arrangement rather than something to be used to deal with unexpected issues.


I know these questions are answered here and there on the forum and apologise for bringing them up again but is there any official guidelines or statements that actually directly address these issues as the agreements I've read lack detail and in many cases seem to support different answers.

Thanks for any answers.

[cyrus]

"individuals may be asked" The reason royal mail use these very words is...they can't tell you to work over your time..I done flexinging on a few occasions.No arguments from me,because by the time it got to the end of week.They were getting highly stressed, trying to give me the time back Haven't done flexing in ages.

[POSTMAN]

3 - Are managers obliged to give a definite answer on when the time will be given back and are they similarly obliged to do so within a certain period of time when an employee is asked to "flex"?

I would demand this,and if i don't like what day i get the time back i would refuse.
Swings & roundabouts my arse.

[POSTMAN]

Our office is currently phasing in a revision and there has been an issue with the size of the HCT deliveries. A couple of posties have tried cutting off and the DIM has claimed that Flex means they can be made to work 30 mins longer on any particular day and then attend 30 mins later the following morning to recoup it in accordance with the agreement.

The DIM does however seem to bend his perception of the agreement's wording on a daily basis according to what needs doing.

Tell him he can't have it all ways and all bets are off.

[fishtank]

Flexibility...

Considerations and Suggested Activities
Traffic forecasts and any anticipated variations will be shared and reviewed at weekly resourcing meetings.A
process should be agreed to deal with unforeseen fluctuations in traffic and/or resourcing issues. This process
should also include how a Manager or an employee should request a variation of hours should this be necessary
and how reciprocal recovery of the time will take place within the individuals working week. Any variations should
be logged and reviewed at the weekly resourcing meeting

Variation of hours process established and agreed.
Regular monitoring should take place at the weekly resourcing meeting to ensure arrangements are fair,
robust and no individual is asked/requested to flex too frequently.

[CharlesSpooner]

Flexibility...

Considerations and Suggested Activities
Traffic forecasts and any anticipated variations will be shared and reviewed at weekly resourcing meetings.A
process should be agreed to deal with unforeseen fluctuations in traffic and/or resourcing issues. This process
should also include how a Manager or an employee should request a variation of hours should this be necessary
and how reciprocal recovery of the time will take place within the individuals working week. Any variations should
be logged and reviewed at the weekly resourcing meeting

Variation of hours process established and agreed.
Regular monitoring should take place at the weekly resourcing meeting to ensure arrangements are fair,
robust and no individual is asked/requested to flex too frequently.

So am I right in thinking that this may be a local agreement issue? It's just that our rep has a knack for making local agreements which the locals don't necessarily agree with!

[fishtank]

You do need to talk to your rep because he should be stopping this.
Flexibility is not a revision management tool,it is and was designed to allow unforeseen resourcing problems to be dealt with without recourse to overtime or failures.
If for instance at the weekly resource meeting your manager has budgeted for the usual average 6 sick absence and then suddenly without warning 23 phone in sick this is an unforeseen resourcing problem,if your last feed breaks down and you're waiting an hour for your mail...that is an unforeseen resourcing problem.
Making the HCT duties too large is poor planning and even poorer management but it is hardly unforeseen.
As far as whether or not they can make you do it...they can't..but equally i would advise against refusing every single time they ask....it is a flexibility agreement after all.

[celerycelery]

You do need to talk to your rep because he should be stopping this.
Flexibility is not a revision management tool,it is and was designed to allow unforeseen resourcing problems to be dealt with without recourse to overtime or failures.
If for instance at the weekly resource meeting your manager has budgeted for the usual average 6 sick absence and then suddenly without warning 23 phone in sick this is an unforeseen resourcing problem,if your last feed breaks down and you're waiting an hour for your mail...that is an unforeseen resourcing problem.
Making the HCT duties too large is poor planning and even poorer management but it is hardly unforeseen.
As far as whether or not they can make you do it...they can't..but equally i would advise against refusing every single time they ask....it is a flexibility agreement after all.

But fishtank they have constantly changed our finishing times from 1pm ish to nowadays 3pm. We all had a certain amount of flexibility when finishing at 1pm, as it was still light, school run was 2 hours away etc etc. Management and the union have pushed and pushed for later starting times and with this obviously later finishing times despite majority of staff thinking its s**t. Why should anyone agree to work 30 mins later in the heat of the summer or the cold/dark of the winter with finishing times already at 3pm 3.15pm and 3.30pm. They can take their flexibility and stuff it up their own arses, funnily i never see a manager go 1 min over their time despite staff coming back later and later.

[jockstrapp]

They can stick flexability right up their arses, they never have and never will get it from me.

[Lincox]

The problem is Royal Mail have no concept of what the meaning of flexibility actually is. They have a system that is willing to bend one way, but unfortunately it is too brittle to be able to bend back. They say they have no flexibility when operating the attendance procedures, yet their own documents state that the manager should take account of all factors before making a decision. Joke, he/she looks at the printout of the individuals record and if it falls outside of the procedures you are staged regardless of other factors. So sh-g them, my flexibility went out the window some time ago.

[Spedley]

request to vary their duty times by up to 30 minutes

I have absolutely no problem with this because I am always prepared to come in half an hour early. I have to pick the kids up after work so I CAN'T work later.

Follow it to the letter and they don't like it.

[fishtank]

But fishtank they have constantly changed our finishing times from 1pm ish to nowadays 3pm. We all had a certain amount of flexibility when finishing at 1pm, as it was still light, school run was 2 hours away etc etc. Management and the union have pushed and pushed for later starting times and with this obviously later finishing times despite majority of staff thinking its s**t. Why should anyone agree to work 30 mins later in the heat of the summer or the cold/dark of the winter with finishing times already at 3pm 3.15pm and 3.30pm. They can take their flexibility and stuff it up their own arses, funnily i never see a manager go 1 min over their time despite staff coming back later and later.

I'm not saying you are wrong,just that if you happen to be able to do it and you don't mind doing it and getting the 30mins back at a time that suits you...suits you....then you should consider it.
I personally have never done it and have been on both unofficial and official industrial action because of the attempted misuse of it and with later starts i can't see me ever doing it but...i would still be careful on how i approached refusing it.

[Caniel]

I refuse to flex because you never get the time back. They would always say come in later the next day and skip the sorting. However when most of the office flexes and none does sorting the next day it's a bit stupid because the managers have to get people to sort when they are supposed to be skipping it. That puts them behind so they go out late and have to claim or cut off.

[POSTMAN]

Don't panic,we striked over the abuse of P&M in 2009,talks are ongoing.