Quick Question On Light Duties..

[Katie28]

Basically I'm on a stage one, been given a Dr's note to state I should be on light/amended duties while they are investigating the issues with specialists(because I have problems with my heart).

My Boss tells me, there is no longer any such thing as light duties, the office jobs are taken and he has spoken to his superiors who tell him if I do not go out and do a round they will send me home, thus escalating my stage 1 to a stage 2..

Is this even legal..?

[protect us]

Proberbly not :( but as I'm finding out they couldn't care less sadly , I don't know what's going on but the way it's looking something behind the scenes is a bigger picture and it ain't good ! I'm having to really look at my health now and think hard about the future ! The union don't seem too involved but that is your First call and I wish you luck - if you've done over ten years service they want us out I reckon !!! Good luck and take care ! Remember your health is priceless , once it's gone it won't come back ! Hope this helps .

[fishtank]

Yes it is legal.
The business has no obligation to offer alternative work,however if at some point you were to end up in an Employment Tribunal they would look unfavourably at an employer who didn't at least make a visible attempt to find you alternative work,especially such a large employer.
To say that their is no longer "light duties" is a blatant lie,to also state that his superiors have informed him that you must complete a full duty is i also suspect a lie.
What you must do is ask for his decision and the reasons behind it in writing and then inform your rep because you will need that documentation in future.


This is from the managers brief on the "fit note".

Question: What happens if I can’t make the suggested modifications to the work/workplace?
Answer: If the doctor has advised that your colleague ‘may be fit for work’, but you can’t make the modifications to help them return to work, you should explain the reasons for this to your colleague and keep a written record documenting why. Details of this discussion should be stored alongside their local sick absence papers (fit notes could be stored here for future reference). The fit note then functions as if the doctor had advised ‘not fit for work’. The individual does not need to go back to their doctor for a new note to confirm this. When considering the doctors advice, you should always consider if the advice is consistent with any industry, or specific safety guidelines or regulations that the doctor may not be aware of.

[stokes11eg]

Don't quite agree fishtank on saying that employers do not have to consider re-deploying you in the workplace if you come down with illness/disability. The accepted practice is that they make every effort to accomodate you, via lighter duties, specialist equipment etc--(R/M are Not exempt from this obligation, although they might like to suggest otherwise)
if after a reasonable period they cannot do this, they would then have to either consider IHR if the chap meets the criteria.
If not, he should be paid off on grounds of incapacity---giving him at the very least, three months wages.
I do agree however that he should write to DOM pointing out his obligation as an employer regarding re- deployment, and if he is sent home on grounds of thee is no work for him, tell DOM he will go to tribunal.

[fishtank]

Don't quite agree fishtank on saying that employers do not have to consider re-deploying you in the workplace if you come down with illness/disability. The accepted practice is that they make every effort to accomodate you, via lighter duties, specialist equipment etc--(R/M are Not exempt from this obligation, although they might like to suggest otherwise)

I didn't say they did not have to "consider" anything or "make every effort" to do anything stokes.
I said at the end of the day they are under no obligation to offer alternative work...because they aren't.
It would be up to you at a Tribunal to show that they hadn't "considered" anything or they hadn't "made every effort".
That is why my advice was to get the managers reasons and decision in writing.

[Katie28]

Thanks for the advice guys. I wont hold out any hope that I'll get anything in writing, this guy systematically crosses out peoples overtime after agreeing it.

Oh yeah, kinda object to being called a 'Chap' and 'he' lol..

[fishtank]

Oh yeah, kinda object to being called a 'Chap' and 'he' lol..

Wasn't me.

[stokes11eg]

Don't quite agree fishtank on saying that employers do not have to consider re-deploying you in the workplace if you come down with illness/disability. The accepted practice is that they make every effort to accomodate you, via lighter duties, specialist equipment etc--(R/M are Not exempt from this obligation, although they might like to suggest otherwise)

I didn't say they did not have to "consider" anything or "make every effort" to do anything stokes.
I said at the end of the day they are under no obligation to offer alternative work...because they aren't.
It would be up to you at a Tribunal to show that they hadn't "considered" anything or they hadn't "made every effort".
That is why my advice was to get the managers reasons and decision in writing.

Hi Fishtank--there was a time when only those covered by the dda act could expect to be offered re-deployment! However ,the most recent guidlines are that should someone with an underlying medical condition, that is on going, and prevents them from doing their normal duties--should be given the same benefits--i.e adjustments to duties, changing hours etc.
Obviously, very few workplaces can accommodate an increasing number of people unable to do their work, but Managers can not just say send them home effectively dismissing them without due process! Should they try this, the chap needs to go straight to tribual!
Again ,I agree all the OP has to raise all these points in a written letter to the DOM--

[fishtank]

Hi Fishtank--there was a time when only those covered by the dda act could expect to be offered re-deployment! However ,the most recent guidlines are that should someone with an underlying medical condition, that is on going, and prevents them from doing their normal duties--should be given the same benefits--i.e adjustments to duties, changing hours etc.

There is no law that forces an employer to make adjustments for anyone,even someone who is covered by the Equality act.No legal agreement on re-adjustment of duties,re-deployment or any "benefits".
All there are is a set of parameters to work within that if followed should protect both the employee and employer from discrimination or legal action resulting from it.
There is no penalty for straying outside those parameters other than increasing the likelyhood of a judgement against you and there is definitely no "employment police" who will break down Royal Mail's door and force them to abide by these parameters.
Nobody can "expect" anything...but they can fight for it,a letter to your DOM might be enough but it probably won't be.

[stokes11eg]

Hi Fishtank--there was a time when only those covered by the dda act could expect to be offered re-deployment! However ,the most recent guidlines are that should someone with an underlying medical condition, that is on going, and prevents them from doing their normal duties--should be given the same benefits--i.e adjustments to duties, changing hours etc.

There is no law that forces an employer to make adjustments for anyone,even someone who is covered by the Equality act.No legal agreement on re-adjustment of duties,re-deployment or any "benefits".
All there are is a set of parameters to work within that if followed should protect both the employee and employer from discrimination or legal action resulting from it.
There is no penalty for straying outside those parameters other than increasing the likelyhood of a judgement against you and there is definitely no "employment police" who will break down Royal Mail's door and force them to abide by these parameters.
Nobody can "expect" anything...but they can fight for it,a letter to your DOM might be enough but it probably won't be.

It's all in a word, Fishtank, employers now MUST now consider all the aforementioned actions! (Evem with those who are 'sick- as opposed to being covered under dda!
There are many proceedures they have to go through to prove they have done just that, and again, failure to do so will go against them heavily at any tribunal!

[POSTMAN]

They are getting lower and lower.

[stokes11eg]

They are getting lower and lower.

Yes, but one good thing to come out of the new.fit note; scheme is that it does place Managers under certain LEGAL obligations! Anyway, if chap gets sent home, although wiling to work within the franework of fit note, he should get full pay

[fishtank]

Stokes...

The "fit note" does not place managers under any legal obligations because it states quite clearly on it that • the information on this form is advice to the individual. It is not an instruction to the employer;.

Have a read at this...

Managers_brief_Mar_2010 (1).doc

[flaminmoses]

think they broke one legal obligation already there.

giving katie an option of doing a walk (whilst under a light duties note) is not showing an employers duty of care for their employee.
the fact its a possible heart condition makes it worse morally if not legally although that could be argued.

if i was you katie id get the doc to sign you off till you know you can work again.

[fishtank]

if i was you katie id get the doc to sign you off till you know you can work again.

There's no need.
If you have a fit note and your employer refuses/is unable to accommodate it the fit note automatically becomes a ‘not fit for work’ note.
That's what the manager is trying to do...push her onto the sick.