what things have to be declared

[trouble]

Someone asked what type of things have to be declared to RM?

Reason I ask is because a manager was recently sacked for not informing RM of something they had done (police were involved, but dont know what happened).

A opg who has was declared bankrupt but who did not tell RM or anyone else is now worried. He said that no'one noticed when it was mentioned in the local paper so he tought no more about it until now.

Should he tell them or keep stump.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

No as far as I know he does not have to tell them, there is no legal obligation to do so. If the Police were involved in the aforementioned incident then it is a potentially criminal act and thats when we as a "notifiable" occupation, should get worried. However as Bankruptcy, while it may be embarrasing its not a criminal act, unless you breach the bankruptcy laws/impositions.

Just to make sure I googled and found this solicitors website and quote from it: http://www.personneltoday.com/articles/ ... uptcy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One of our long-serving employees has been declared bankrupt. We are concerned this may impact on his job, particularly in terms of his ability to afford travel to work as well as retain a smart appearance. What steps can we take, and what are our obligations?


The normal duration of first-time bankruptcy is one year. This, and the fact that the stigma surrounding bankruptcy has decreased in recent years, means that bankruptcy (or the formal alternative, an Individual Voluntary Arrangement) have become much more commonplace.

Certain jobs in areas such as the legal or financial services sectors will have unique rules that may prohibit employees continuing to practise after being declared bankrupt, and in such cases, employers may have to investigate dismissal on the grounds of 'statutory restriction' (the least used of the six fair reasons for dismissal). Similarly, it will be a standard clause in most properly drafted service agreements (as well as in the Articles of Association of most limited companies) that directors will cease in their duties if they are declared bankrupt.

With regard to employees who do not fall within the categories above, staff and employers' obligations towards one another still remain the same after an employee has become bankrupt.

The Trustee in Bankruptcy will provide the employee with an amount to live on that should pay for travel to and from work and appropriate work attire. If this does become an issue, consider offering a loan to the employee, particularly if they are 'client facing' and therefore need to be smart in appearance to perform effectively. Employers who do offer loans should ensure there is a recoupment provision within the contract of employment, or agree an appropriate amendment to the contract.

You cannot take disciplinary action on the grounds of bankruptcy alone on an employee with more than 12 months' service it has to have had an impact on the employee's performance or capability. Even in an extreme scenario where an employee becomes homeless, it will only be relevant for employment purposes where it impacts upon their ability to carry out their role.


By Russell Brown, employment lawyer and partner, Glaisyers Solicitors

[TrueBlueTerrier]

But tell him to get a copy of his contract and check just in case its in there - if it is then he will have to declare.

[General Mannerheim]

I was under the impression that if an employee was delcared bankrupt then they couldn't work for RM as they were considered a high risk for stealing.

Maybe if you work on the counters or cashco handling money but come on your hardly going to be a high risk robbing figurine weekly or you have won 25 million quid off some nigerian lottery scam.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I was under the impression that if an employee was declared bankrupt then they couldn't work for RM as they were considered a high risk for stealing.

You might be right I am checking another website which says: http://www.oneadvice.co.uk/page-Bankrup ... tages.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

•There are a number of professions including the Post Office that will not employ bankrupts for some jobs; i.e. you cannot be a postman handling mail that may contain cheques. Additionally you cannot be in the armed forces or the police force. Certain other professions such as the legal and accountancy professions also impose restrictions on bankrupts.

Surely though when he was made bankrupt there would have been some guidance documentation, or a lawyer/solicitor/administrator placed in charge so they would/should have advised him of his obligations.

Could it be though that he has not been made Bankrupt but is under a Individual Voluntary Arrangement (IVA) which is different.

[trouble]

Hi TrueBlueTerrior

Thanks for the quick replys,
I have been trying to ring the person in question to ask them some of the details but am unable to contact them at present.

What difference would it make if it was only an IVA so that when I talk to them I can inform them, THANKS.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

In contrast to a bankruptcy, the best thing about an IVA is that your home is totally secured. There are no social stigma attached to it, your friends and family will not have to know that you have gone bankrupt; you are given 60 months to make a payment to all your creditors. He will be paying an affordable amount of money, and at the end of which he will become debt free.

http://www.ivahelpcenter.co.uk/iva-faq. ... helpcenter" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Basically an IVA and Bankruptcy are essentially the same in that you pay of creditors over a certain amount of time and debts are written off. However a IVA is not in the public domain where as bankruptcy is. Of course there are many legal differences between the two, and how the debt is paid but for him thats the main difference.

[trouble]

Hello TrueBlue Terrior,

Finally got through to the person in question and after reassuring him that I had not disclosed his name etc, he said yes it was an IVA that he is in and that it lasts for five years. He has not told anyone as he is embarassed and feels ashamed even to talk about it.

He wants to know though would he have to inform Royal Mail, he is in deliveries?

Could they sack him if they ever found out?

Is this a notifiable event as the police are not involved and it is not illegal?

He has worked for Royal Mail for over 13 years and does not know where his contract is does this matter.

Once again thanks for any information on this.

[arnold cheshire]

being in debt is NOT a criminal offence

[TrueBlueTerrier]

With an IVA he is fine - its not bankruptcy its just another way of handling a debt so he has no need to tell RM as far as I can see. IVAs are private matters between the debtor and his creditors.


Tell him to breathe easy.

[stokes11eg]

:sad:This happens, and not one person in our office who have taken out trust deeds etc, have been disciplined.

[fishtank]

I love the logic that says that someone in financial difficulty is going to risk losing the only secure income they have by stealing a tenner from a birthday card.
When people use financial difficulties as an excuse for theft...it's usually when they are looking at some time in the big house and that's only because Knobend & Cox have advised them to.
Being skint doesn't make you a thief....i'm always skint.

[stokes11eg]

I love the logic that says that someone in financial difficulty is going to risk losing the only secure income they have by stealing a tenner from a birthday card.
When people use financial difficulties as an excuse for theft...it's usually when they are looking at some time in the big house and that's only because Knobend & Cox have advised them to.
Being skint doesn't make you a thief....i'm always skint.

Hear, hear!