Just been suspended

[B.D.O]

It was my weekend off, so today was my first day of the week and it wasn't a good start.
There was a manager waiting for me, he asked me for a chat. I replied will I need a witness, to which he replied, "no, its just an informal chat"

As soon as we got up stairs, he then told me he was conducting a fact finding interview !!!

So this is what happened last Friday.

First off, I forgot to take out the very last bit of my rural, a small lane of 6 houses, I still had 20 minutes of my duty time left, but I still never took it out when I got back.
My reason for that is because its common practice in our office, it has happened to others more times than I have had hot dinners.

The second thing to happen was, when I got back to my office, I was locked out, I knocked at least 7 times and eventually a co-worker came to unlock the door, he was unaware I was knocking because of a call of nature.
When I got in the office, I found my supervisor and another co-worker both in the office.
I asked why they ignored me, when I asked the question, I used the F word. Bare in mind it was a question and my swearing was not directed at anyone in particular.
Swearing in the same manner in our office is also common practice, including from our supervisor.

I have been suspended for swearing at my supervisor and leaving mail behind.

Also bare in mind I do not get on with my supervisor and my DOM is aware of the situation, I have asked her on 3 separate occasions to deal with the problem of my supervisors attitude towards myself and my co-workers, but she has failed to take any action.

Only 2 weeks ago a manager who came to cover a round failed to take out a whole bunch of business mail and several parcels that were from the previous Saturday. I highlighted the fact the mail had been left to my supervisor, to which he replied, "its nothing to do with me" !!!

So, what chances do I have ??

[ronpetetrevchris]

Both acts you have comitted are sackable after investigation. Meaningfull delay and insubordination both pretty serious.

I take it you have contacted the union rep and area rep.

The way i would go is proving that both acts are commonplace in your D.O but that still dosent mean they wont bin you, sorry but thats the reality.

Even while the investigation is going on, and if as you say these are commonplace, then gather evidence that these things are still happening using a mate, times and people involved.

But, be prepared to be dismissed and a tribunal!

[ElvisGaddafi]

The sad fact nowadays is that if they're out to get you they'll get you. Especially if you work to your hours and don't take any s**t from management you can guarantee that when something happens (which they may overlook by somebody else whose face fits) which gives them the opportunity to get rid of you they'll take it. The argument that it's common practice in your office isn't a great one as it's your word against theirs. And something like leaving part of your duty, no matter how little is so patently wrong that it's practically indefensible. Wilful delay is probably the most serious charge you can have against you when it comes to considering dismissal and the only way you could prove it's common practice in your office would be for a colleague or colleagues to say that they have done the same thing which would obviously mean the boot for them also. Although if you could prove it, I suppose the managers and supervisors would also be guilty. If I was in your shoes (which I wouldn't be because I would've taken the mail when I returned to the office and told everybody within earshot that I was going to deliver it on the way home) I would make sure I had a good rep to sit in on the meeting and - just in case the worst came to the worst and I got sacked and ended up at a tribunal - I'd have my phone in my pocket on voice record and make sure my manager and i had a long conversation, off the record, about how it's common practice, everybody does it, everybody swears including managers etc

[B.D.O]

So its curtains for me then.

Yes, I am one of those who takes no crap. I am constantly falling out with my supervisor.
I work in a SPDO and we don't have a in office manager, we have a supervisor.

He is a complete and utter knob who since the day he arrived in our office has systematically destroyed a good office.
I have complained to my DOM countless times, who has ignored my complaints.

I can prove the swearing part, everyone swears and no one likes our supervisor, so they will have no problem coming forward about that.
But as for mail being left on a daily basis is another matter.

I actually have photos of trays of mail that had been left for days.

[jack straw]

I take it you have contacted the union rep and area rep.

What good are they gonna be? They've obviously been after this poor bloke, and now they think they've got him. :dcfo

[POSTMAN]

B.D.O,you left mail because others do even though you had duty time left,AND you swore while talking to a manager.

You need to suck up mate and if you get away with it keep your head down.

What others do and what happens to and with others aint fair and we've all been there but in the present climate we have to just get on and ignore.

[fishtank]

You have to try to take the case in the direction you need it to go.
There is no way to get off the un-excused delay charge so you have to mitigate it as much as possible.

The "common practice" approach has some merit but it has it's dangers in the fact that a) no one will usually admit to it and more importantly b) it makes your supervisor look like an arse which in turn makes Royal Mail look like idiots.
It may be wiser to to head down the "genuine mistake".."under a lot of stress" etc route.

The swearing charge is less serious but it is typical of management when trying to progress a conduct charge to try to have one of these in the bank so it looks as if you are a problem rather than just someone who has made a genuine mistake.
I stress this is just an opinion based on the little facts available.

[B.D.O]

You have to try to take the case in the direction you need it to go.
There is no way to get off the un-excused delay charge so you have to mitigate it as much as possible.

The "common practice" approach has some merit but it has it's dangers in the fact that a) no one will usually admit to it and more importantly b) it makes your supervisor look like an arse which in turn makes Royal Mail look like idiots.
It may be wiser to to head down the "genuine mistake".."under a lot of stress" etc route.

The swearing charge is less serious but it is typical of management when trying to progress a conduct charge to try to have one of these in the bank so it looks as if you are a problem rather than just someone who has made a genuine mistake.
I stress this is just an opinion based on the little facts available.

You are correct.
I am a thorn in their side and I have been stupid enough to make a genuine mistake and forgotten to take out a few houses, no excuse I know, but still, it was a genuine mistake.
Yes I still had 20 minutes left on my duty, not long enough to take those 6 houses back out and deliver it.
Again, is it an excuse to say I have seen it happen time and time again ?
Probably not.

Hopefully a tribunal will see my side of the coin.

[ronpetetrevchris]

I take it you have contacted the union rep and area rep.

What good are they gonna be? They've obviously been after this poor bloke, and now they think they've got him. :dcfo

for no other reason than 2 or three heads (especially when trained ) are better than one.

[Lounge Lizard]

So its curtains for me then.

Yes, I am one of those who takes no crap. I am constantly falling out with my supervisor.
I work in a SPDO and we don't have a in office manager, we have a supervisor.

He is a complete and utter knob who since the day he arrived in our office has systematically destroyed a good office.
I have complained to my DOM countless times, who has ignored my complaints.

I can prove the swearing part, everyone swears and no one likes our supervisor, so they will have no problem coming forward about that.
But as for mail being left on a daily basis is another matter.

I actually have photos of trays of mail that had been left for days.

Perhaps having "a complete and utter knob" who can "systematically destroy a good office" is more likely at an SPDO, as anyone who can find the capital to buy a Sub Post Office will take on the role even if they've no ability whatsoever at managing a few staff, not that I'm suggesting that Royal Mail's management training means that their DOMs do the job well but they will at least have had some experience as a post(wo)man and/or some management training.

[B.D.O]

How long can I expect to be suspended for ?

[fishtank]

How long can I expect to be suspended for ?

Suspension should only occur when it is necessary to prevent the risk of further breaches of conduct, to protect employees, property or mail, or to protect Royal Mail’s good image and standing in the community. It should only last as long as is genuinely necessary and will be reviewed after 48 hours and at reasonable periods thereafter.

[B.D.O]

How long can I expect to be suspended for ?

Suspension should only occur when it is necessary to prevent the risk of further breaches of conduct, to protect employees, property or mail, or to protect Royal Mail’s good image and standing in the community. It should only last as long as is genuinely necessary and will be reviewed after 48 hours and at reasonable periods thereafter.

So because I genuinely forgot 6 houses, I am deemed as a risk to Royal Mail ?
This is of course the first time it has happened in the 7 years I have been there.

My only conduct is a first stage for time off.

[fishtank]

So because I genuinely forgot 6 houses, I am deemed as a risk to Royal Mail ?
This is of course the first time it has happened in the 7 years I have been there.

My only conduct is a first stage for time off.

You shouldn't have been suspended to start with.
Managers are abusing the use of Precautionary Suspension but then they seem to be abusing every agreement we have at the moment and no-one seems to be able to stop them.
Read up on the Conduct code... http://cwule.org/cc.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ...it will help.

[postie222]

have they got proof the mail was left ? photo copies.maybe a long shot