possible outcome of strike

jasey wasey · Post by **jasey wasey** » 12 Aug 2007, 09:10

when we quite rightly went out on strike over royal mails pay deal and conditions the most we could hope for was to get them back around the table in meaningful talks. to expect royal mail to just cave in would have been to unrealistic. so now with the tuc and acas involved royal mail will hopefully shift from their stance of "thats the offer take it or leave it". neither side now will want to be seen to be caving in and loosing face. so my prediction on these "talks" is that the cwu will concede on a few issues and royal mail will meet us in the middle. so lets see if royal mail are true to their word and are prepared to talk .............................. or will they act like little kids and throw toys from the pram,take their ball home,and spit the bloody dummy out. AND IF THEY DO... SEE YOU ALL ON THE PICKET LINE BOYS AND GIRLS

robd · Post by **robd** » 12 Aug 2007, 09:34

Royal mail are the employer,not the union.
And they are well within their rights to amend your contractual hours if it is deemed to be in the best interest of the
business.
The role of the union in such negotiations would be regarding renumeration,and as such i expect they will recommend we
accept the later starts.
Interestingly the last pay deal actually surrended the overtime rates to promote a basic increase.
On this occassion we are being softened up for a move to later starts by retaining an allowance,so what about the
people who will need or be required to remain on 5.00am starts what can they expect from this new deal?

bertie · Post by **bertie** » 12 Aug 2007, 09:45

What about new people coming in ? I don't think they will get an allowance even with early starts ? Or existing employees who change their duty/contract etc?

axeman · Post by **axeman** » 12 Aug 2007, 09:59

the mandate was for the business plan to be removed thats why i went on strike as we don't want later starts (the majority) then lets not even begin to be seen accepting them why let royal mail walk all over you in the name of 'modernisation' it's your life if you wish to be subordinate and pander to every wish of royal mails then you should not strike in the first place or put in for one of these 'bosses' jobs that are advertised

BELIAL · Post by **BELIAL** » 12 Aug 2007, 10:03

robd wrote:Royal mail are the employer,not the union.
And they are well within their rights to amend your contractual hours if it is deemed to be in the best interest of the
business.

they can only change your contract of employment with your/unions agreement.[yourrights.org.uk]

DirtyHarry · Post by **DirtyHarry** » 12 Aug 2007, 10:36

What's all this, "Neither the CWU, or Royal Mail, will want to lose face.", nonsense ? ............ We shouldn't give a Rat's ass whether Leighton &
Crozier lose face, they pushed us into taking IA, they deserve all the comebacks heading their way. As for the CWU, we certainly would lose face
accepting a poor deal just so Lamebrain & Dozier don't lose face........... If you all get my drift.

Stormproof · Post by **Stormproof** » 12 Aug 2007, 10:43

I went up to the canteen yesterday and the plasma was spouting its usual crap, 'posties' were talking about 'how great the late starts are' and how they would like the 6.30 starts to change to 7am so they can go out get plastered and have a lay in. What planet are they on?? Are they real posties or are they managers dressed up to look like the workforce? What a bunch of tossers!!

dogfood · Post by **dogfood** » 12 Aug 2007, 10:47

As has been highlighted in recent newspaper articles 'EARLY STARTS ARE NOT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE BUSINESS'

Joe Public does not want their mail delivered in the afternoons and businesses do not want mail delivered in the afternoons.

The majority of RM employees do not want early starts.

How can the CWU accept the early starts based on the 3 statements above?

The Government need to decide whether RM is a public service or a business. RM can't be a business that provides a universal service within a free market (no business would deliver an item to the Outer Hebridees for 32p).

Post by **TrueBlueTerrier** » 12 Aug 2007, 10:50

dogfood wrote:The Government need to decide whether RM is a public service or a business. RM can't be a business that provides a universal service within a free market (no business would deliver an item to the Outer Hebridees for 32p).

Post by **rhino49** » 12 Aug 2007, 11:15

dogfood wrote:As has been highlighted in recent newspaper articles 'EARLY STARTS ARE NOT IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF THE BUSINESS'

Joe Public does not want their mail delivered in the afternoons and businesses do not want mail delivered in the afternoons.

The majority of RM employees do not want early starts.

How can the CWU accept the early starts based on the 3 statements above?

The Government need to decide whether RM is a public service or a business. RM can't be a business that provides a universal service within a free market (no business would deliver an item to the Outer Hebridees for 32p).

Spot on dogfood - why can't they see that

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 12 Aug 2007, 11:54

k66yla wrote:I went up to the canteen yesterday and the plasma was spouting its usual crap, 'posties' were talking about 'how great the late starts are' and how they would like the 6.30 starts to change to 7am so they can go out get plastered and have a lay in. What planet are they on?? Are they real posties or are they managers dressed up to look like the workforce? What a bunch of tossers!!

If they had scouse accents, they'll probably be the idiots from our office. If one looked like a rat wearing a blonde wig, they're certainly from our office and that particular individual does indeed have trouble getting up after a night on the ale. Those on the film were hand picked by management and not one of the many voices of dissent was allowed to give their view on the subject.

robd · Post by **robd** » 12 Aug 2007, 13:42

BELIAL wrote:they can only change your contract of employment with your/unions agreement.[yourrights.org.uk]

Good point,however as this will fall under a collective agreement,i fear the union will recommend acceptance as
financially the majority of people will benefit.
i can only comment on my own office,but the feeling is most will vote yes,as long as they retain their allowance.

Remember this is a very grey area that the union have been trying to address,hours and pay are one thing,but your
duty time is another.
Leighton says he listens,but as Dogfood says no-one else wants this.
Royal mails window of delivery will be between 10.00am-2.00pm,satisfying the regulator,but pleasing no-one else.

one more quote from...yourrights.org.uk
"the employer had good business reasons for the changes "

The union have gone back into secret negotiations,but should they have come back to the members and asked
what they were prepared to accept?

Post by **Carnoustie** » 12 Aug 2007, 14:06

robd wrote: The union have gone back into secret negotiations,but should they have come back to the members and asked what they were prepared to accept?

No, that would not be a good move. It would weaken our negotiating position because if it was known by RM that some people - like a few waverers in my office - would, even now, still take the derisory 2.5% so long as their early start allowance is retained, I can guarantee that that's all RM would offer, and hope to sneak it through. We have to let our negotiators thrash out what they believe is the best deal they can obtain. It's up to us to use our vote to tell them whether it's what we're prepared to accept !

dave7634 · Post by **dave7634** » 12 Aug 2007, 14:40

k66yla wrote:I went up to the canteen yesterday and the plasma was spouting its usual crap, 'posties' were talking about 'how great the late starts are' and how they would like the 6.30 starts to change to 7am so they can go out get plastered and have a lay in. What planet are they on?? Are they real posties or are they managers dressed up to look like the workforce? What a bunch of tossers!!

Our office thinks just like this when they see those at (I think) Runcorn Delivery Office as featured on the plasma screens. "Its good coz you get to see the public!" Have you SEEN just how fast the guy walks on his round? I'm surprised he has time to actually focus on the public as he's walking that fast!

It must be awesome still walking around at 2pm in the height of the heat and no toilet stops/ drinking stops on your round unless you badger Joe Public for a drink/ tiddle etc and lets be honest, this isn't their job to supply and make RM ideas work.

Then you have the guy who says that he used to sit watching the telly and at around 9-10pm he used to be dozing but now, thanks to the later starts he has a social life! Doesn't it not occur to him that all he'll do is go to bed an hour later and still be dozing but at 10-11pm instead???

"When later starts were brought in the public complaints went through the roof but now they're used to it!" What choice do the public have apart from pay Â£7 approx and have it delivered earlier?? Are these people the same public who were sent questionnaires out from RM and then their reply was that they weren't bothered what time they got their mail???

Public service?? Forget it

sol · Post by **sol** » 12 Aug 2007, 15:16

"The Government need to decide whether RM is a public service or a business. RM can't be a business that provides a universal service within a free market (no business would deliver an item to the Outer Hebridees for 32p)."

Surely the government has already made up their mind. They introduced liberalisation 3 years early.

The problem seems to me to be that the CWU decided last year that it would form an alliance with the management to 'win in the market place'. Remember Billy Hyaes said that it was a 'groundbreaking agreement', and Dave Ward said it would 'put the union at the centre of the company'. In fact the management took it as a sign of weakness on the part of the union and came back for more.

The CWU needs to oppose cuts in jobs and services and campaign against liberalisation in defence of RM as a public service. Once you accept the commercial agenda of RM then the only thing to discuss is how many jobs to cut.