Could you sue the CWU?

[REDLETTER]

Just wondering if, because the way the last agreement was put together whether you could sue the Union if it turn out that your working conditions were compromised / reduced, mainly by either sides or both failing to follow the agreement that is written down?

[gb93]

Yeah go for it we are all right behind you

[Indy]

Just wondering if, because the way the last agreement was put together whether you could sue the Union if it turn out that your working conditions were compromised / reduced, mainly by either sides or both failing to follow the agreement that is written down?

Does the CWU owe its membership a duty of care? is your predicament indicative of the membership as a whole? I'm sure you'll be able to find a lawyer able to argue the toss in court* for a suitable fee!!!

Yes I'm perfectly aware that its a barrister that stand up in court!!!

[REDLETTER]

Yeah go for it we are all right behind you

[fishtank]

Yeah go for it we are all right behind you

That's the most worrying part.....

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Just wondering if, because the way the last agreement was put together whether you could sue the Union if it turn out that your working conditions were compromised / reduced, mainly by either sides or both failing to follow the agreement that is written down?

No.

Because as I understand it the agreements are not legally enforceable so it could be heard in anything but a civil proceeding.

Also the agreement covers 3 years and we are only just now reaching the 1st anniversary of the agreement there are still 2 years to run on it. Even without that any case would be weakened because the agreement was accepted in a democratic ballot audited by scrutiniers, so if there was a chance of a case proceeding it would have to be a class action. AFAIK it would not meet the requirements for legal aid I doubt seriously that a No Win No Fee firm would touch such a case with a barge pole.

Also I think the case would fall at the first hurdle because you would have to prove that the CWU is responsible either in part or in whole for RM not adhering to the agreement and that simply is not possible.

[REDLETTER]

Just wondering if, because the way the last agreement was put together whether you could sue the Union if it turn out that your working conditions were compromised / reduced, mainly by either sides or both failing to follow the agreement that is written down?

No.

Because as I understand it the agreements are not legally enforceable so it could be heard in anything but a civil proceeding.

Also the agreement covers 3 years and we are only just now reaching the 1st anniversary of the agreement there are still 2 years to run on it. Even without that any case would be weakened because the agreement was accepted in a democratic ballot audited by scrutiniers, so if there was a chance of a case proceeding it would have to be a class action. AFAIK it would not meet the requirements for legal aid I doubt seriously that a No Win No Fee firm would touch such a case with a barge pole.

Also I think the case would fall at the first hurdle because you would have to prove that the CWU is responsible either in part or in whole for RM not adhering to the agreement and that simply is not possible.

My train of thought was more to do with whether the CWU followed their own guidelines and if not, how would it then stand!

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Guidelines are just that a guide so failure to follow them would not be a legal matter. Just like an agreement is an agreement not a legally enforceable contract.

I suppose in the end if all things are possible then yes you could sue the Union but the costs would be enourmous and in my estimation any awards from a sucessful action would be very small, you would also have to pay your own legal costs wiping out any possible renumeration from wining such a case.

Its a non goer unless you happen to be a Barrister or Lawyer with a strong background in Contract Law and willing to give up a few years to make a case without any support.

[REDLETTER]

Guidelines are just that a guide so failure to follow them would not be a legal matter. Just like an agreement is an agreement not a legally enforceable contract.

I suppose in the end if all things are possible then yes you could sue the Union but the costs would be enourmous and in my estimation any awards from a sucessful action would be very small, you would also have to pay your own legal costs wiping out any possible renumeration from wining such a case.

Its a non goer unless you happen to be a Barrister or Lawyer with a strong background in Contract Law and willing to give up a few years to make a case without any support.

Thanks TBT

Just like an agreement is an agreement not a legally enforceable contract.

Can I tell my DOM that!!!

[steviemac]

fekkin disgrace, cancel your membership, you're not welcome

[POSTMAN]

Sue the 42223 yes voters,i would.

[REDLETTER]

fekkin disgrace, cancel your membership, you're not welcome

Oh for a democracy Brother!

[easter bunny]

Are ex Colleagues moaning because they havent got 12pm job and finish anymore ?

You want to be thankful that there is a Trade Union in RM..

Heaven help Ex-Colleagues if they werent...

[hans solo]

if its not a legally binding contract wtf are we doing then
if its not legal why force change

[TrueBlueTerrier]

if its not a legally binding contract wtf are we doing then
if its not legal why force change

Its the language that causes the confusion. Althought the agreements do not fit the definiton of a legally binding contract (See quote), you can still take emloyers to an ET if they breach or abuse it. However, for the sake of this argument the CWU are merley a channel that came up with the agreement and they have no responsibility in law (AFAIK) for its implementation or observance.

Whether or not a document constitutes a binding contract depends only on the presence or absence of well-defined legal elements in the text proper of the document (the so-called "four corners"). For example, a binding contract typically must contain mutual consideration—a legally enforceable obligations of the parties, and its formation must take place free of the so-called real defenses to contract formation (fraud, duress, lack of age or mental capacity, etc.).

Our agreements fall down from being a legally binding contract because there are no "legally enforceable obligations" ie if you don't do this - this will happen etc.