A question for Dave Ward

[welshy808]

As DSA is the biggest threat to Royal Mails future and therefore a threat to CWU members jobs,
Would it be possible to hold a national ballot to refuse to handle DSA until a proper rate is paid?
This would surely be the best way to safeguard jobs, and protect the future of Royal Mail.

[Big Daz]

I would be happy with such a ballot so long as it was made crystal clear to mbrs that it was IA and would mean loss of wages.

[blue1873]

Would such a ballot be better done in each office
given the amount of people who(said) they did'nt
receive a ballot paper the last time

[fishtank]

Would it be possible to hold a national ballot to refuse to handle DSA until a proper rate is paid?

Unlikely...you are drifting away from what the law considers a "trade dispute" into the realms of the political.

A trade dispute must relate "wholly or mainly" to the following....
terms and conditions of employment,
engagement or non-engagement or termination or suspension of employment of workers,
allocation of work,
discipline ,
membership or non- membership of a union,
union facilities and management-union procedures relating to union facilities.

If you can find a way to crowbar DSA in there well done.
But remember "wholly or mainly" .....so nothing spurious.

[welshy808]

I would be happy with such a ballot so long as it was made crystal clear to mbrs that it was IA and would mean loss of wages.

I thought that if you work your hours there would be no loss of wages, just that the backlog would consist of only DSA.
If there was a loss of wages it would be worth it, a short term loss for a long term gain.

[welshy808]

Would it be possible to hold a national ballot to refuse to handle DSA until a proper rate is paid?

Unlikely...you are drifting away from what the law considers a "trade dispute" into the realms of the political.

A trade dispute must relate "wholly or mainly" to the following....
terms and conditions of employment,
engagement or non-engagement or termination or suspension of employment of workers,
allocation of work,
discipline ,
membership or non- membership of a union,
union facilities and management-union procedures relating to union facilities.

If you can find a way to crowbar DSA in there well done.
But remember "wholly or mainly" .....so nothing spurious.

As a member of the CWU, I feel that DSA is the main reason my terms and conditions are under attack.
if a fair price was paid then RM would not be in the financial situation it is, therefore i would consider that job losses and pensions as well as current terms and conditions are dependant wholly on this unfair burden.

[fishtank]

I would be happy with such a ballot so long as it was made crystal clear to mbrs that it was IA and would mean loss of wages.

I thought that if you work your hours there would be no loss of wages, just that the backlog would consist of only DSA.
If there was a loss of wages it would be worth it, a short term loss for a long term gain.

If it's your job to deliver DSA welshy which it is...and you refuse to deliver DSA then you are in breach of contract and will be sent home without pay.
Royal Mail will not let you pick and choose which mail you deliver.

[fishtank]

As a member of the CWU, I feel that DSA is the main reason my terms and conditions are under attack.
if a fair price was paid then RM would not be in the financial situation it is, therefore i would consider that job losses and pensions as well as current terms and conditions are dependant wholly on this unfair burden.

Not even close i'm afraid welshy.
The lawyers would have a field day with words like "feel" and "consider".
Pre 1982 you may have got away with it when "connected to" was enough but not now i'm afraid.

[welshy808]

If we worked to time and there was a national ballot in place, then those customers who paid a decent price for the service would still receive it.
I am not advocating individuals just not delivering DSA. Rather as part of lawful industrial action no CWU member touching it whether in delivery, transport or mail centres.

I simply think this would force the hand of Postcomm, and help protect my job.
I also think that DSA users should be allowed to use us for a limited period only while they set up their own delivery network, say a two year licence then deliver it yourself.

[welshy808]

As a member of the CWU, I feel that DSA is the main reason my terms and conditions are under attack.
if a fair price was paid then RM would not be in the financial situation it is, therefore i would consider that job losses and pensions as well as current terms and conditions are dependant wholly on this unfair burden.

Not even close i'm afraid welshy.
The lawyers would have a field day with words like "feel" and "consider".
Pre 1982 you may have got away with it when "connected to" was enough but not now i'm afraid.

That wasn't meant as a direct answer just putting my thoughts out there.
Dave Ward has lawers that could change "As a member of the CWU, I feel that DSA is the main reason my terms and conditions are under attack."
into something like, "The under pricing of DSA is the largest contributing factor in recent and future job losses at Royal Mail. CWU members terms and conditions are becoming unacceptable due to the under pricing of DSA. Therefore we are going to ballot Postal members for Industrial Action upto and including strike action."
My question is after getting a yes vote could stop handling DSA we even if it did bring a loss of earnings.

[clashcityrocker]

So if the MC refuses to handle DSA and none arrives in the DO, you had better hope and pray you have a shedload of D2D or the "measured workload" falls through the floor and you end up lapsing more duties.
What then happens to the surplus staff?

[fishtank]

I don't want to appear as if i support the pricing structure for DSA welshy because i don't but you have no chance of pinning your T&Cs on DSA because according to the very union you are asking that question of they have improved dramatically over the last 5 years...
I call my first witness...dingo.

DGP yes the job is harder than it was 10 years ago , and it is harder than it was 5 years ago but equally pay has improved as well and terms and conditions.

[welshy808]

I don't want to appear as if i support the pricing structure for DSA welshy because i don't but you have no chance of pinning your T&Cs on DSA because according to the very union you are asking that question of they have improved dramatically over the last 5 years...
I call my first witness...dingo.

DGP yes the job is harder than it was 10 years ago , and it is harder than it was 5 years ago but equally pay has improved as well and terms and conditions.

True. You and I know that pay and terms and conditions are worse than last year though.

[welshy808]

So if the MC refuses to handle DSA and none arrives in the DO, you had better hope and pray you have a shedload of D2D or the "measured workload" falls through the floor and you end up lapsing more duties.
What then happens to the surplus staff?

we do have shedloads of D2D, that have never been put into workload properly.
and lapsing during the period of lawful IA would end when an agreement was reached and DSA came back online, or when UK Mail, DHL and TNT's customers started sending it by Royal Mail as it wasn't getting delivered as DSA.

[Broxi51]

If it's a question for Dave Ward then I would like to know why the CWU hasnt gone
national in the media stating that the current shambles is just the beginning that
privatisation will bring but with an added 40p to first class letters.
The people of the UK have consistently been recorded as saying that they dont
want RM to be privatised. Well, it's time to use the papers & Tv to hit the message
home that there beloved service will soon be permanently expensive and selective
of who, when, where & what it delivers and will be happy to bypass the post office
if there is a cheaper option.
Up here in SNP land there is no media notice of any campaign to keep the post public.
Maybe thats reserved for the golden pavements mob