Manager told us 99% of accidents avoidable

[Supersonicvandriver]

Manager told us 99% of accidents avoidable. After postie slips and breaks a bone in his back. Manager was running around with loads of sheets for everyone to sign. Worker who hurt back told it was his fault that he slipped on ice.
What do you think???????

[smokerjim]

I think it's absolutely correct, if RM paid people irrespective of weather conditions, then more would stay at home, and more of us would be safe, and accident free - I know that's a bit glib, but if you live within walking distance of a DO & you come in, you should get full pay, but if you are unable to come in, you should be given half pay ( that way anyone with a risky journey, might say "Sod that, I'm not going to risk damge to my car, or worse myself!". However to balance this, everyone that is issued spikeys, should sign for them & be expected to make the journey to an office ( within a reasonable radius, say 2 miles ), and failiure to do so could result in a conduct code ( with a 1 year serious being the maximum punishment )....no spikeys would also mean no outdoor work.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Manager told us 99% of accidents avoidable. After postie slips and breaks a bone in his back. Manager was running around with loads of sheets for everyone to sign. Worker who hurt back told it was his fault that he slipped on ice.
What do you think???????

Techically his statement of 99% of all accidents are avoidable is correct. HOWEVER That does not mean that posties themselves are 100% at fault when an accident occurs - I guess he forgot that part.

If the accident was slipping on ice then the blame should be apportioned, imho, on a series of questions. For instance and this is moving from the incident and going backwards in logical steps.

1. Did the postie assess the situation.
2. Was he wearing the correct footwear.
3. Was he wearing the correct safety equipment - in this case spikeys or chains.
4. Had he been issued the correct footwear.
5. Had he been issued the correct safety equipment.
6. Had he been trained correctly on the safety equipment.
7. Had the weather conditions been assessed and taken into account.
8. Had the Severe Weather Policy of RM been followed correctly.

IMHO only 1 to 3 can be blamed on the postie but did RM hold their end up with 4 - 8. I doubt it if he was running around with bits of paper after the incident.

[london sub]

I would also say number 4 because it is the posties responsibility to make sure that footwear has good tread and is at a good standard, if not then its your responsibilty also to phone up the uniform helpline and issue new shoes. Failure to do this might look bad when interviewed and the dom inspects the condition of your shoes.

There is alot of posties out there that have little or no tread and have complained about the condition of the shoes. But even if they only last 4 months get another pair, don't let it twindle on for another 2 months or you will be waiting for an accident to happen.

[Stormproof]

Manager told us 99% of accidents avoidable. After postie slips and breaks a bone in his back. Manager was running around with loads of sheets for everyone to sign. Worker who hurt back told it was his fault that he slipped on ice.
What do you think???????

Techically his statement of 99% of all accidents are avoidable is correct. HOWEVER That does not mean that posties themselves are 100% at fault when an accident occurs - I guess he forgot that part.

If the accident was slipping on ice then the blame should be apportioned, imho, on a series of questions. For instance and this is moving from the incident and going backwards in logical steps.

1. Did the postie assess the situation. YES
2. Was he wearing the correct footwear. YES
3. Was he wearing the correct safety equipment - in this case spikeys or chains. NOT SUPPLIED
4. Had he been issued the correct footwear. YES
5. Had he been issued the correct safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
6. Had he been trained correctly on the safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
7. Had the weather conditions been assessed and taken into account. TOLD TO GO OUT & GET ON WITH IT
8. Had the Severe Weather Policy of RM been followed correctly. NO SWOP IN PLACE

IMHO only 1 to 3 can be blamed on the postie but did RM hold their end up with 4 - 8. I doubt it if he was running around with bits of paper after the incident.

Just wondering was I to blame for my accident?

[POSTMAN]

Manager was running around with loads of sheets for everyone to sign.

What did it say?

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Manager told us 99% of accidents avoidable. After postie slips and breaks a bone in his back. Manager was running around with loads of sheets for everyone to sign. Worker who hurt back told it was his fault that he slipped on ice.
What do you think???????

Techically his statement of 99% of all accidents are avoidable is correct. HOWEVER That does not mean that posties themselves are 100% at fault when an accident occurs - I guess he forgot that part.

If the accident was slipping on ice then the blame should be apportioned, imho, on a series of questions. For instance and this is moving from the incident and going backwards in logical steps.

1. Did the postie assess the situation. YES
2. Was he wearing the correct footwear. YES
3. Was he wearing the correct safety equipment - in this case spikeys or chains. NOT SUPPLIED
4. Had he been issued the correct footwear. YES
5. Had he been issued the correct safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
6. Had he been trained correctly on the safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
7. Had the weather conditions been assessed and taken into account. TOLD TO GO OUT & GET ON WITH IT
8. Had the Severe Weather Policy of RM been followed correctly. NO SWOP IN PLACE

IMHO only 1 to 3 can be blamed on the postie but did RM hold their end up with 4 - 8. I doubt it if he was running around with bits of paper after the incident.

Just wondering was I to blame for my accident?

you state that the spikeys were not supplied, if you knew these existed then yes you are partly to blame for your accident, if you were not advised about them then you are not to blame, and when i do say partly i mean just a little bit, as everyone is responsible for their own health and saftey at the end of the day, not just the managers and if you knowingly do something you know is not safe and get hurt sorry to say it is partly your own fault even if a manager told you to do it, he will be in the s**t as well as yourself and probably to a greater degree for telling you to do it

[Stormproof]

Manager told us 99% of accidents avoidable. After postie slips and breaks a bone in his back. Manager was running around with loads of sheets for everyone to sign. Worker who hurt back told it was his fault that he slipped on ice.
What do you think???????

Techically his statement of 99% of all accidents are avoidable is correct. HOWEVER That does not mean that posties themselves are 100% at fault when an accident occurs - I guess he forgot that part.

If the accident was slipping on ice then the blame should be apportioned, imho, on a series of questions. For instance and this is moving from the incident and going backwards in logical steps.

1. Did the postie assess the situation. YES
2. Was he wearing the correct footwear. YES
3. Was he wearing the correct safety equipment - in this case spikeys or chains. NOT SUPPLIED
4. Had he been issued the correct footwear. YES
5. Had he been issued the correct safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
6. Had he been trained correctly on the safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
7. Had the weather conditions been assessed and taken into account. TOLD TO GO OUT & GET ON WITH IT
8. Had the Severe Weather Policy of RM been followed correctly. NO SWOP IN PLACE

IMHO only 1 to 3 can be blamed on the postie but did RM hold their end up with 4 - 8. I doubt it if he was running around with bits of paper after the incident.

Just wondering was I to blame for my accident?

you state that the spikeys were not supplied, if you knew these existed then yes you are partly to blame for your accident, if you were not advised about them then you are not to blame, and when i do say partly i mean just a little bit, as everyone is responsible for their own health and saftey at the end of the day, not just the managers and if you knowingly do something you know is not safe and get hurt sorry to say it is partly your own fault even if a manager told you to do it, he will be in the s**t as well as yourself and probably to a greater degree for telling you to do it

We did'nt have spikeys when I had my AOD. I asked for chains at the beginning of the week and was told there were'nt any as they had all been given out on my day off, on asking colleagues infact no one was given chains as manager did'nt order any in.

[Supersonicvandriver]

hi. the lad in question. was driving and doing a rural. Can you wear spikes while drving?
There were 5 sheets so much information. I didnt read it. As i just be carful and hopefully i won't be in an accident.,
Our manager goes through many trees a week with things for us to sign for. I sign and bin. As i don't have a desk to put it in.
The managers job is the easiest job in the office. They just look on maplin and e-bay all day and answer a few emails. The post would still go if we go rid of a few thousand of them.

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

Manager told us 99% of accidents avoidable. After postie slips and breaks a bone in his back. Manager was running around with loads of sheets for everyone to sign. Worker who hurt back told it was his fault that he slipped on ice.
What do you think???????

Techically his statement of 99% of all accidents are avoidable is correct. HOWEVER That does not mean that posties themselves are 100% at fault when an accident occurs - I guess he forgot that part.

If the accident was slipping on ice then the blame should be apportioned, imho, on a series of questions. For instance and this is moving from the incident and going backwards in logical steps.

1. Did the postie assess the situation. YES
2. Was he wearing the correct footwear. YES
3. Was he wearing the correct safety equipment - in this case spikeys or chains. NOT SUPPLIED
4. Had he been issued the correct footwear. YES
5. Had he been issued the correct safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
6. Had he been trained correctly on the safety equipment. NOT SUPPLIED
7. Had the weather conditions been assessed and taken into account. TOLD TO GO OUT & GET ON WITH IT
8. Had the Severe Weather Policy of RM been followed correctly. NO SWOP IN PLACE

IMHO only 1 to 3 can be blamed on the postie but did RM hold their end up with 4 - 8. I doubt it if he was running around with bits of paper after the incident.

Just wondering was I to blame for my accident?

you state that the spikeys were not supplied, if you knew these existed then yes you are partly to blame for your accident, if you were not advised about them then you are not to blame, and when i do say partly i mean just a little bit, as everyone is responsible for their own health and saftey at the end of the day, not just the managers and if you knowingly do something you know is not safe and get hurt sorry to say it is partly your own fault even if a manager told you to do it, he will be in the s**t as well as yourself and probably to a greater degree for telling you to do it

We did'nt have spikeys when I had my AOD. I asked for chains at the beginning of the week and was told there were'nt any as they had all been given out on my day off, on asking colleagues infact no one was given chains as manager did'nt order any in.

well in that case then yes you are partly to blame for the accident, as you knowingly went out under equiped in unsafe working conditions and got hurt, but your boss will be in a deeper pile of poo if you can prove he also knowingly sent you out in undafe working conditions without the correct equipment

[POSTMAN]

Me:Guv i've had an accident on duty.
Screw:Did you know that 99% of acci.....
Me:Yeah so i heard,my one was the odd 1%,now don't talk s**t to me and fill the f***ing form out.

[fishtank]

I know that's a bit glib, but if you live within walking distance of a DO & you come in, you should get full pay, but if you are unable to come in, you should be given half pay.

Jim....explain to me why someone who lives further away from the D.O. should only get half pay after making a reasonable attempt to get to work.
Royal Mail are moving the work further away from us all the time...why should we be penalised for that?
On wednesday i couldn't move my car 5 feet because of the weather...all public transport was suspended and i live more than 5 miles from my D.O which would be ridiculous to attempt on foot in blizzard conditions.
I will not accept ANY abatement of pay due to circumstances out with my control and that was made clear to my manager and my area rep this morning after having this SWOP bollox stuffed under my nose.

[smokerjim]

FT, forgive me if I'm labouring under a misaprehension, but isn't it the case now, that no matter where you live, if you don't attend an office and sign in, you get paid the grand total of S.F.A? If that is the case, that is the only reason why half pay should be given to non-attendees - if there is an arrangement for those outside a given radius from any office, then the half pay should apply to those within that radius only.

well in that case then yes you are partly to blame for the accident, as you knowingly went out under equiped in unsafe working conditions and got hurt, but your boss will be in a deeper pile of poo if you can prove he also knowingly sent you out in undafe working conditions without the correct equipment

Sorry pal, I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I just can't fit my head up there.

1. We all know stormproof is no pushover, but how many people in RM are? How many are likely to tell a lineo "Sorry boss, not going out - it's too dangerous!" only to back down if threatened with wilful delay? Is it their fault, that they fear for their job?

2. My lineo ordered spikeys 2 weeks ago ( to beat the snowy rush ) as of Tuesday, FK where they are...although he commented it is not unusual for supplies he orders for the rural office to be opened up & "borrowed" by the town office, before what's left is sent down to him. Is it my fault if supplies do not get through for weeks on end, if at all - should I let the mail pile up till the snow clears?

3. Last year I tried ordering some chains for personal use ( bypass the managers, who don't go out in the snow, ice & s**t & ergo don't really care to remember), and snow chains ( and by extrapolation spikeys ) are a management order item only - it's MY H&S, but I am NOT allowed to order any! Is it our fault we decide not to commit fraud & impersonate a manager?

4. When I attempted to order the snow chains learned that my office is only allowed to order 50 sets....and there must be at least 80 odd deliveries, plus rurals, plus support and bus jobs ( granted, you should not wear chains or spikeys while driving, but you will still need them if there is a delivery portion....no driver will spend all day sat in his van )....what happens to those without any chains....is it still their fault?

5. The 50 chains that are ordered come in 3 sizes IIRC, covering shoe sizes from 3 - 12, and a ratio of 10 X S, 20 X M, 20 X L, which usually results in lots of average & big footed posties mssing out , whereas those with midget feet can almost get a pair for everyworking day! Is that my fault again....or can I blame my parents for not binding my feet from an early age? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[IcanthelpthewayIam]

FT, forgive me if I'm labouring under a misaprehension, but isn't it the case now, that no matter where you live, if you don't attend an office and sign in, you get paid the grand total of S.F.A? If that is the case, that is the only reason why half pay should be given to non-attendees - if there is an arrangement for those outside a given radius from any office, then the half pay should apply to those within that radius only.

well in that case then yes you are partly to blame for the accident, as you knowingly went out under equiped in unsafe working conditions and got hurt, but your boss will be in a deeper pile of poo if you can prove he also knowingly sent you out in undafe working conditions without the correct equipment

Sorry pal, I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I just can't fit my head up there.

1. We all know stormproof is no pushover, but how many people in RM are? How many are likely to tell a lineo "Sorry boss, not going out - it's too dangerous!" only to back down if threatened with wilful delay? Is it their fault, that they fear for their job?

2. My lineo ordered spikeys 2 weeks ago ( to beat the snowy rush ) as of Tuesday, FK where they are...although he commented it is not unusual for supplies he orders for the rural office to be opened up & "borrowed" by the town office, before what's left is sent down to him. Is it my fault if supplies do not get through for weeks on end, if at all - should I let the mail pile up till the snow clears?

3. Last year I tried ordering some chains for personal use ( bypass the managers, who don't go out in the snow, ice & s**t & ergo don't really care to remember), and snow chains ( and by extrapolation spikeys ) are a management order item only - it's MY H&S, but I am NOT allowed to order any! Is it our fault we decide not to commit fraud & impersonate a manager?

4. When I attempted to order the snow chains learned that my office is only allowed to order 50 sets....and there must be at least 80 odd deliveries, plus rurals, plus support and bus jobs ( granted, you should not wear chains or spikeys while driving, but you will still need them if there is a delivery portion....no driver will spend all day sat in his van )....what happens to those without any chains....is it still their fault?

5. The 50 chains that are ordered come in 3 sizes IIRC, covering shoe sizes from 3 - 12, and a ratio of 10 X S, 20 X M, 20 X L, which usually results in lots of average & big footed posties mssing out , whereas those with midget feet can almost get a pair for everyworking day! Is that my fault again....or can I blame my parents for not binding my feet from an early age? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_binding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I think i did state quite clearly partly to blame, and also point out his lino would be in bigger s**t,, If you get hurt and werent willing to speak up saying the practice was unsafe before hand and you knew it, then yes you are absolutely partly to blame, managers are not fully soley responsible for your health and safety, it is quite clearly laid down in the health and saftely at work act 1974 that individuals are responsible for their own saftey, also any union member can contact their h+s Rep and tell them of the problem if they are not willing to speak out against their manager or call the rm employee help line

[richystran]

On the topic of spikeys (sorry for thread hijack) our dom said that they are not issued to drivers, just the walks! Is this the case, or are they only saying this as i know i could do with a pair, getting out of the van onto black ice is pritty risky!