Advice needed re: absence + subsequent stage 1

[harry69]

I was off sick for a day on Friday October 8th, and returned to work the next day (Saturday 9th). Nothing at all was said to me about my absence when I returned, let alone a manager conduct a return-to-work interview, until this morning, when I got a letter from a line manager which stated this absence had triggered stage 1. To say I wasn't best pleased is an understatement!

Anyway, surely I must be able to dispute this, seeing as the managers failed to conduct a return-to-work interview with me upon my return (as they've done before when I've been off sick)? How can it be right that it's taken this long for them to do anything about it?

Apparently I've got an 'interview' with the personnel manager tomorrow morning, but I'm seriously considering refusing to attend or sign anything, as they've failed to follow procedure. I couldn't find the office rep this morning to ask for his advice, so I thought I'd ask on here if I have a case for challenging what, in my eyes, is a failure of the management's.

[mazza111]

I believe stage warnings have to be given within a reasonable timescale. However, I don't think 2-3 weeks is beyond a reasonable timescale. You should have had a return to work interview though.

I actually came looking for advice on the same subject, as mine was triggered on 9th September and I've to attend a meeting on Thursday. 6 weeks after the event

So what would we/they define as a reasonable period?

[not me]

IIRC there is no appeal procedure for a stage 1 or 2

[harry69]

Yeah, I was fairly sure myself that stage 1 can't be appealed. What annoys me especially is the fact that I'll be put on stage 1 tomorrow, rather than Saturday 9th October when I returned to work, as I should have been. This means that I have to take more time off work from tomorrow until 9th December, it'll be stage 2 for me, when the period should be 9th October to 9th December (assuming I'm right in thinking you trigger stage 2 if you're off again within two months of going on stage 1).

Given I can't appeal, I might just tell the personnel manager I'm not attending this 'interview' and I'm not signing anything as they've failed to follow procedure in letting it run this long without uttering a single word; and I'm thinking of putting in a grievance because I'm going to be unfairly penalised due to being put on stage 1 later than I should have been.

[Thehair]

Not sure where you stand on not attending the interview, but you can get it reconvened until you've got your rep to take in with you. DEFO take in the rep, he should be able to get any warning backdated or depending on the circustancres, get it not awarded. Good luck.

[sidewinder]

Stage 1 can't be appealed against. I had 3 days of last year and had my back to work nearly two months later. Even though I was sick with heavy cold my dim put it down as vomiting. Didn't realise that until I got my sick record earlier this year when I was put on a stage 1 again!

[TeeferTiger]

It'll go by the absence date as the sick warnings are triggered from HR. Just because the manager hasn't done anything with it for weeks, doesn't mean that the date of you being absent has changed.

When you get the print off of your sick record, it'll show the absence dates on there. Handy to keep hold of too...

[banddy]

IIRC there is no appeal procedure for a stage 1 or 2

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yep, unfortunately you will have to accept the stage1 at this point...you can raise the "procedural error" if you go on to the next stage(2) and you can't appeal the stage 2 decision either!

however, you can appeal at stage3 (dismissal) but would you want to take the chance of having to go down that route!?

i know it will be difficult, but the best thing to do is keep your nose clean for 12 months -
(sick absences are counted on a rolling 12month period - not individual years as some people think) -

otherwise you could be pi**ing against the wind!

[fishtank]

A return to work interview is not part of the formal attendance procedure so it's omission is not grounds for disputing an attendance stage.
Refusing to attend the stage interview will simply mean that you will lose the opportunity to present any mitigating circumstances..it will not in itself stop the issue of a stage warning,neither will refusing to sign it unfortunately.
If you do however disagree with the findings of the stage interview make sure this is recorded by both your manager and your rep.

3. RETURN TO WORK DISCUSSIONS
When someone returns to work from absence the line manager must aim as soon as possible to speak privately and out of earshot of others with the person in a non-threatening and supportive way outside formal procedures with the following objectives:

· to acknowledge the employee's return and show it is valued
· for the employee to air any concerns
· to see if any help is needed and provide direction to encourage regular attendance
· to ensure absence is appropriately certified

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yeah, I was fairly sure myself that stage 1 can't be appealed. What annoys me especially is the fact that I'll be put on stage 1 tomorrow, rather than Saturday 9th October when I returned to work, as I should have been. This means that I have to take more time off work from tomorrow until 9th December, it'll be stage 2 for me, when the period should be 9th October to 9th December (assuming I'm right in thinking you trigger stage 2 if you're off again within two months of going on stage 1).

Your assumption is correct if you are on trial:

Full details at Attendance Procedure

[POSTMAN]

As covered many times on here and the managers are seriously taking the piss with it,DEMAND that the stage warning(cause you know you're gonna get it) is backdated to say a couple of days at least after your last sick date.Personally i would go for the last day of sickness.
Make sure a note of it is added in the notes as well.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

I'm getting lost here...

Providing you have followed procedure about rinnging in ASAP to inform your manager about sickness on the first day; reported in each day until such time as you may have a "sick note" from your GP; hand in GP note or fill in self certificate (if less than 7 days)...

How can a "stage 1" be issued out, unless you have a recent history of calling in sick?

[woofwoof]

if you get a stage 1 put a grievence in against the manager and put he didnt follow royal mails own procedure ,no contact no back to work interview not even a good morning

[fishtank]

How can a "stage 1" be issued out, unless you have a recent history of calling in sick?

On trial....Stage 1: 2 absences or 7 days in a 6 month period.
Not on trial....Stage 1: 4 absences or 14 days in a 12 month period.

[bandit650]

I was informed that a manager should deal with a stage warning within 21 days of having the report sent to them,we have had a simlar problem in the office i am based at,1 of the lads i work with has managed to get his stage 1 pushed back by 5 months his was an accident on duty,he has been back 7 months and they have just issued his stage warning(which was issued at the date interviewed)this gave him a longer span to when his sick record would be clear,we got it put back as we knew that it would be issued and even though it was an accident while on duty(the manager that issued the stage had been told to do it)we even bought up about the fact that they had not even done a return to work until the guy had been back for 2 months,if you dont sign they will still issue they just add a foot note to the effect that you refused to sign,the thing is a stage 1 is really just a warning that you have fallen below the standard and as someone has said if you get to a stage 3 you will be able to fight it from there.The managers just issue each sick they know that they are flouting the procedure and futher more they dont care they are just doing what they are told to do from above.