GROSS MISCONDUCT...THIS WILL AFFECT ANYONE READ THIS!

[kidserge]

Recently, a post officer has been dismissed of gross misconduct because customer has claimed that the special delivery (SD) packages have been lost. I am currently fighting the case and go into ET (appeal manager uphold the dismissal). This post officer has obtained the signatures from customer and they have got the signature card. Now this post officer has been accussed of stealing the package. I just want to warn everyone with regards to this as it could happen to any post delivery officer. I will provide a full detail as soon as ET has hear it and as soon as I get the all clear from my relevant legal advisors but suffice to say this is totally ridiculous.

Does anyone has any experience of this? What if you have delivered the SDs to the customers and they claim they have not received it?

[stokes11eg]

Well, if he has a legitimate signature, he should be O'K.but did he ask for Proof of I.D, and record what it was? An off chance here the P739 was put through the wrong letter box.And does his P.O not have security cameras? If the time of pick up has been recorded on the card, it should be easy to see who actually collected it.

[Big Daz]

stokes

No need for ID on the doorstep, just the callers office. My callers office has a big notice advising customers of the need for ID.

[Wessex]

I wish you good luck with your tribunal.It does sound ridiculous.A thought has occurred to me-Have Royal Mail paid any sort of compensation to the customer.It would be interesting if they have not because it may indicate that they didnt believe the customer.Something perhaps your legal team could demand evidence of ?

[stokes11eg]

stokes

No need for ID on the doorstep, just the callers office. My callers office has a big notice advising customers of the need for ID.

The way I was reading it initially was that it was picked up from po counters, hence the advice! but looking towards the end of the post, I see delivery mentioned! Oops! Still, if he has got the card, I would suggest he hangs on to it. If he knows for certain he has delivered it,then if it was me, I'd counter argue, and see about having fingerprints taken from the card. Although most customers are honest, sadly there are more and more dishonest ones, and it's about time Posties stood up to them ! Good luck in your defence of this chap!

[kidserge]

The IB has asked the delivery officer(DO) to provide signature sample. They immediately said it looks the same. I have asked for an expert's report but they refused. They even refused to let me have the sample until I sent them a threatening letter. When I got it, I would say even a child would say it looks different. I have get an expert's report but unfortunately the appeal manager said that he is satisfied that it looks the same so other's opinion is irrelevant.

[stokes11eg]

What a shocking state of affairs! Now this peson is unemployed, he may be entitled to legal aid, so it would be worthwhile seeing a solicitor-. I think we all know as posties that many customers make wrongful alleagations, although usually of the minor kind, ie no p739's , but when your honesty and integrity is at stake, and your job has been lost,because of false allegations, then all you can do is fight. Good luck,

[Lounge Lizard]

There's also the inconsistency of it all. One loses his job for this, yet others regularly sign Recorded Deliveries for the customers, several a day sometimes, and get away with it for years.

[clashcityrocker]

I deliver to a lot of houses converted into flats.
I ring a bell and someone comes to the door. I have no idea if they are the right person. I have no idea if the name they put on the card is their real name.
Is this an accident waiting to happen?

[stokes11eg]

I deliver to a lot of houses converted into flats.
I ring a bell and someone comes to the door. I have no idea if they are the right person. I have no idea if the name they put on the card is their real name.
Is this an accident waiting to happen?

No, as we are constantly told, we deliver to the door, not the person, but I still think when it comes to signed fors,we should ask for some proof of I;D--actually, this takes me back a few years. I used to deliver to a house which was shared by various people. When one went on holiday, he paid for a keepsafe, someone else then came with I'D from that address, and arranged to pick up the mail! The then P>HG authorised this,and when I spoke to Management about my concerns about someone -paying for a keepsafe and allowing just anyone from the address to pick it up, they just shrugged their shoulders!

[kidserge]

I never done anything like this before so I do not know how the system works. In my country (obviously not UK) if you are accusing someone of stealing or anything they need proof. It seems like the system here is different? They can just point the finger at you and say you are guilty and that's it? Can someone higher up in the Royal Mail that read this be able to help me out at all? Please? The PO is in a very distressed state due to the stealing/misdelivery allegations. In fact so am I as the allegations are just so ridiculous yet I know I cannot reveal the full details here until it is resolved. Could someone in this forum be able to bring it up to the higher level officers in Royal Mail? Any help would be very grateful.

[fishtank]

I never done anything like this before so I do not know how the system works. In my country (obviously not UK) if you are accusing someone of stealing or anything they need proof. It seems like the system here is different? They can just point the finger at you and say you are guilty and that's it? Can someone higher up in the Royal Mail that read this be able to help me out at all? Please? The PO is in a very distressed state due to the stealing/misdelivery allegations. In fact so am I as the allegations are just so ridiculous yet I know I cannot reveal the full details here until it is resolved. Could someone in this forum be able to bring it up to the higher level officers in Royal Mail? Any help would be very grateful.

It's not a court of law so absolute proof is not required...just a reasonable assumption of guilt based on the facts of the case.
So in the case of a customer's word against a delivery officer's there should at least be some other evidence of possible guilt in order to proceed.

[kidserge]

believe me, I have put down a lot of evidence and they keep rejecting it. These evidences are solid facts and not conjectures. What is "reasonable" and "not resonable" is down to interpretation. I really cannot believe this is happening....

[stokes11eg]

But--guilty until proven innocent. it seems this chap has lost his job and reputation on what appears to be a false allegation.If he has been sacked for gross misconduct, they need to spell out the reasons, and if those reasons suggest that they, as well as the customer is accusing him of theft, he needs to take out a private action. Seek legal aid.

[Spedley]

There must be more to it than that.
One special delivery is delivered and signed for [at the callers office?] and yet the customer denies they have received it.
Sounds like a cock-up, let's work out what happened and stop it happening again [full stop].