Dingo please help!!!!!! OR ANYONE IN THE KNOW!

[cantbelieveit's...]

Can we Put this to bed please

1) Has IWT and GEO ROUTE been agreed??
2) Have the figures such as 100% Bsi and other figures such as walk speeds been agreed??
3) Should the IWT be being used to lapse if you have not yet done a revision(CDV'S)

Being told by area and div rep that everything is now agreed and to carry on with revision. What is not agreed is close to agreement and only minischule chage will then be made.

So is it all go?? where is the joint statement!!!!!

Communication from the communication union is SHOCKING!!!!!!!!!

[postietaz]

hope a legal pis break izzzz included shame on you

[belle smith]

1) it's certainly in the national agreement that we will use them.
2) Shamefully it isn't in the national agreement what performane standards will be for those tools.
3) dont know.

[Martin Walsh]

The joint statement has not yet been agreed. There was a couple of issues still to be resolved and the Royal Mail manager leading on it went on leave.

The union can not have an issue with either the IWT or geo route, they are sound tools , in fact geo route is used world wide.

However there are elements of the IWT which needs to be update for example once you have done your redirections then where do you take them ? plus how many times do you clear down your ips or secondary.

In terms of geo route there is still live testing going on. The joint statement would have said that both systems are fit to use and if the live testing shows a need to update the system then a new version will come out currently we are on iwt 6.25 and geo route 2008. All revisons should then have a review if already introduced to see if the new version changes your office.

Both of these systems have to have joint input if it is to be accurate.

Now in terms of 100 BSi being agreed , well there is an issue here , Royal Mail changed the criteria for what they compare productivity on , they now use weighted items per work hour to compare offices and decide who are in the upper decile and delivery offices are put into 4 groups one is cities , one is towns, one is rural and the other surbubria.

Now in terms of the IWT and 100 bsi , acas guidelines state that 75 BSI is the measure which should be expected by a trained worker, over 75 bsi should mean that some one is fully trained , has a full head of work and is motivated. Royal mails claims that the pay rise , supplement and attendances and shorter working week provides motivation.

Now in terms of speeds for walking they have been reduced and there are different speeds for different terain, equally there is a different speed for paths , standing at the door , attendance calls etc which means that no one has to walk at 4 miles per hour for their whole delivery round as all of these elements mean that the speed is reduced. The union with Royal Mail are currently testing some elements on geo route live, however geo route 2008 providing all the sid and sarah is done and checked , the aplus is up to date and the loops , traffic is correct should provide for a reasonable revision but all of those factors have to be done.

By the way remember if your at 75 bsi on the IWT then you do not have to get to 100 in the first revision you can agree the target under the aims and objectives and therefore you can agree to set the IWT at 85 or 90 reducing it from 100.

No there is no agreement to use the IWT for absorbtion.

Your divisionaL rep is correct providing you are happy that you have measured your office correctly, you have inputed all the correct info into both geo route and the iWT then it would be safe to proceed. However make sure your satisfied with the model week and your involvement.

[Cut Off King]

And just remember, if it all goes wrong, then its YOUR FAULT, not the top members of the CWU. They have provided you with everything you need in the last water-tight agreement that was negotiated.

[fishtank]

Royal mails claims that the pay rise , supplement and attendances and shorter working week provides motivation.

I'm lost for words with that one dingo.
If this is the case...

acas guidelines state that 75 BSI is the measure which should be expected by a trained worker

Why on earth would you do this....?

you can agree the target under the aims and objectives and therefore you can agree to set the IWT at 85 or 90.

Do you honestly believe that staff will become MORE motivated as this sham trundles on?.

[dvbuk55]

The whole bloody agreement was a sham. The CWU have been out manouevred for the last 5 years. The likes of dingo don't really live in the real world, despite all the protestations of stand up and be counted, it really is one compromise after another.

How many times have people been on here and said there is no local union support or that it is corrupt or that their local branch is useless and yet you still hear - Go to you local Rep/Area Rep/Div Rep. The whole organisation needs a total revamp and get back on track in supporting and representing the people who pay them.

It has been almost a year now and still the chattering goes on and on and on - some people have no shame.

[oypostie]

Royal mails claims that the pay rise , supplement and attendances and shorter working week provides motivation.

Have they looked at the "Have your say" results recently

[Martin Walsh]

Fishtank , 75 bsi is normal speed , most companies want higher than that which is why acas guidelines insist that motravtion should be provided.

Remember DPMS lots of offices were over 100 why becasue they loved the job and finish motravation and raced around.

Now in terms of the normal its a sham of an agreement. Well tell me why its a sham , as most on here are compaining not of the actual revisions but because of the fact it has not been introduced yet.

A great trade union leader was buried yesterday Jimmy Reid and he made a famous comment when someone asked how did he know his union had won in the ship yard work in and he answered well we are still here.

Now lets look at last year Royal Mail was introducing executive action everywhere and coming up with their own work standards which were indivdual performance measures not for an office , and they wanted to crush the cwu and then crush the workforce.

Well you now have a revison process where everything is about being involved and ensuring all the information in your office is correct and if its not then you dont sign off the second phase and you pass it up to the area rep and divisonal rep who if they cannot resolve it then it goes to the National Deployment Group.

Now if an office has not got the bottle to ring the area rep to tell him or if he is not helpful then phone the divisonal rep or indeed CWU HQs then dont come on here moaning.

Now the most talked about issue on here is absorbtion , you know and I know we dont get paid for price work we get paid for the hours we work either 39 hours or 40 and if you believe that Royal Mail will continue to allow people to finish early without asking you to do something else then you really are in a fantasy world. No union argues on one hand for better terms and conditions and then argue can our members continue to have job and knock and finish before their time.

Now look at have your say records equally is not a good compassion as last year as loads of offices were involved in executive action and industrial action where results always nose dive and now their is no industrial action or executive action results will be higher but that does not mean people are happier in the job just that it was a stressful time last year for a lot involved in loads of industrial action.

[dvbuk55]

Well they are still introducing what they want only this time it is in collusion with the CWU, who misguidedly consider that to be negotiating.

Don't tell me you believe that what the CWU have as a leadership is in any shape or form of the calibre of Jimmy Reid?

[Martin Walsh]

No Dvbuk the CWU are sticking to the national agreement which the members endorsed. Royal Mail are not introducing any revisons by executive action so the only revisons which have been introduced are by local agreement which have been supported by the members.

So tell me where the disagreements are at local level if everything was so bad we should now have a long list of offices at stage 2 or 3 of the IR framework. We have not.

People can moan all they like but no one can deny that the delivery revision process allows the local rep full access to all the revison process , its in black and white in the agreement and the local revison workshop.

Now jimmy was a one off but there are a number of people who have made their name within the CWU for orgainsing local or divisonal disputes both official and the other kind and got great agreements.

Now what is a good agreement I alway think its one where the majority of those voting in either an office , an area or nationally vote to support the agreement. That is democracy and it really dont matter if you hate the agreement or not if the members vote for it then its a good aggreement.

[fishtank]

Fishtank , 75 bsi is normal speed , most companies want higher than that which is why acas guidelines insist that motravtion should be provided.

Sorry dingo...i only do normal speed and as i am getting older and the eyesight starts to go,the brain slows and the years of walking the streets take their toll i really can't see that increasing no matter what fake motivation Royal Mail invent.
What kind of trade union agrees this nonsense?

Jimmy Reid was a great man dingo,a militant pragmatist....an unusual combination.

[Big Daz]

Hey dingo have you heard about militant managers refusing to work past their time?

Gonna be brilliant for comments section in our next HYS.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

That is democracy and it really dont matter if you hate the agreement or not if the members vote for it then its a good aggreement.

Sorry have to disagree after all Hitler was essentially voted in as a Dictator and that certainly did not turn out well.

IMHO a good agreement can only me measured by the results when the agreement is implemented, and whether conditions have improved or not.

Two weeks after the Reichstag fire, Hitler requested the Reichstag to temporarily delegate its powers to him so that he could adequately deal with the crisis. Denouncing opponents to his request, Hitler shouted, “Germany will be free, but not through you!” When the vote was taken, the result was 441 for and 84 against, giving Hitler the two-thirds majority he needed to suspend the German constitution. On March 23, 1933, what has gone down in German history as the “Enabling Act” made Hitler dictator of Germany, freed of all legislative and constitutional constraints.

BTW I am in no way saying that he CWU in anyway compares to the NAZI Party merely employing a device to show that not all agreements voted in by a majority are good, and that you need to see the results and outcomes of the agreement/vote before any reasonable judgement can be made.

But then that's my POV and Dingo's is different, that's what makes debate interesting.

[fishtank]

Now what is a good agreement I alway think its one where the majority of those voting in either an office , an area or nationally vote to support the agreement. That is democracy and it really dont matter if you hate the agreement or not if the members vote for it then its a good aggreement.

I wonder if Robert Mugabe uses the same system of measurement.