'First day of absence'

Post by **Carnoustie** » 29 Jul 2007, 13:49

Can anyone clear something up for me? I had an accident on duty (AOD) and was sent to hospital. I went back to my office, completed the accident forms (they use that ERICA on-line reporting system) but was unfit to complete my shift, and was sent home.
I assumed that when I phoned in sick the next day, RM would count my absence as starting from when I phoned in sick (i.e. the first day I did not attend for my duty). But my rep says that they count the day I had the AOD as the 'first day of absence'

Is he right ? Logically and morally, you would have thought that because I attended for duty on the day of the accident, they can't count me as being absent until the next day, when I phoned in. But, seeing as they count weekend and rest days towards an absence, it wouldn't surprise me if this IS Royal Mail policy

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 29 Jul 2007, 13:52

Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, your rep is right. But I'm sure the day of your accident should be classed as a 'part-absence' on your record.

Post by **baldrick** » 29 Jul 2007, 19:01

As I understand it, any absence resulting from an Accident on Duty (or an Incident on Duty - eg a robbery) does not count on your sickness record, so it won't matter whether they counted the day of the accident as well. It will be recorded on your computerised attendance record as sickness absence, and should you go over the trigger point for a Stage Warning (13 days or 3 absences in 12 months for a Stage 1) the personnell computer will automatically send your Manager a notification for a Stage 1 interview. Your Manager will call you in to notify you of the interview which must be held within 48 hours.
You need to go to the interview with a Rep, who will point out that the Accident on Duty does not count as sickness and should be amended on the computer records. The Manager should know this anyway, but he is required to go through the procedures.
I think this is correct, but I am not a Rep. I have gone through this myself though. Perhaps one of the Reps ou there could confirm if this is right.

Post by **baldrick** » 29 Jul 2007, 19:05

IWW Fellow Worker wrote:Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, your rep is right. But I'm sure the day of your accident should be classed as a 'part-absence' on your record.

I don't think that's how it works now. If you're off for part of the day (we call it a panel out) and you resume the next day it is counted as a part absence or panel, but if you do not resume the next day, it is now counted as the first day of your absence.

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 29 Jul 2007, 19:20

Seniorman wrote:
IWW Fellow Worker wrote:Unless things have changed in the last couple of years, your rep is right. But I'm sure the day of your accident should be classed as a 'part-absence' on your record.
I don't think that's how it works now. If you're off for part of the day (we call it a panel out) and you resume the next day it is counted as a part absence or panel, but if you do not resume the next day, it is now counted as the first day of your absence.

Cheers mate. They can count an AOD towards a stage though, depending on the circumstances. I mentined a woman on here a few weeks ago who was given a Stage 1 after having a breast lump removed. Previous to this, her only other absence was an AOD when she slipped over and hurt the base of her spine. The scum who issued her the Stage 1 counted the two days for the AOD as well.

Post by **baldrick** » 29 Jul 2007, 19:39

Cheers mate. They can count an AOD towards a stage though, depending on the circumstances. I mentined a woman on here a few weeks ago who was given a Stage 1 after having a breast lump removed. Previous to this, her only other absence was an AOD when she slipped over and hurt the base of her spine. The scum who issued her the Stage 1 counted the two days for the AOD as well.[/quote]

Well he sounds incompetent, stupid, or vindictive.
Or all three.

ROCKY · Post by **ROCKY** » 29 Jul 2007, 19:52

AOD SHOULD NOT COUNT AS SICK,WERE YOU SO SLOW DUE TO YOUR INJURY THAT IT TOOK YOU PAST YOUR FINSH TIME TO GET HOME AFTER FILLING OUT FORMS ETC,IF SO YOU WORKED YOUR FULL HOURS FOR THAT DAY,DOCS HOSPITALS ETC IS IN WORKS TIME

IWW Fellow Worker · Post by **IWW Fellow Worker** » 29 Jul 2007, 20:00

Seniorman wrote:Well he sounds incompetent, stupid, or vindictive.Or all three.

He certainly is. He was moved from our office because he became such a joke and no one respected him. He's been moved a few times since in the last few years. I last heard he was at Copperas Hill. Anywhere else, he would have been kicked out. Not in RM though where he can count on his mates covering for him.

stevie247 · Post by **stevie247** » 29 Jul 2007, 21:07

This is a classic example of RM caring AOD policy,i had a accident on duty after delivering i steped down the few steps at that door and into a space between two slabs and twisted my ankle once the pain passed i carried on my delivery.The next day reported it to line manager filled in the accident report including telling him that my ankle had swelled up but that i thought it ok as i had strapped it up in ankle sock.That day meets that lino out on my delivery said he was up taking pictures of the space between the slabs i said did you see how bad the space was he said yes and that the people that stayed there had come to the door and said it was bad and they would fix it.The next day was told to go to managers office once there he says that the accident report was still to be finished asked me a few more questions got me to sign THEN SAID AS THE ACCIDENT IVESTIGATOR IN HIS OPINION IT WAS AVOIDABLE.As you can imagine i was raging and said so you are saying that it's my fault he said he was not saying that so i said i was taking it further contacted my area union rep who said that he would take it up with area manager but surprise surprise never heard another thing about it.

Post by **Carnoustie** » 29 Jul 2007, 22:53

Cheers for the info, guys.

Get this, though. Two days after the AOD, I get a standard letter informing me of the procedures to be followed when off sick: keep in contact, phone in at least 24hrs before you resume, and advising (threatening?) me that 'if your absence exceeds a week, you may be asked to fill in an "Informed Consent" form in order that we may refer you to the EHS'.

Amongst the bills and other letters I got that morning, guess what I else I received ? A letter asking me to fill in, sign - and return within 7 days - an "Informed Consent" form

This on only Day 3 of my absense FFS

Needless to say, they can shove that

Post by **baldrick** » 29 Jul 2007, 23:24

As I understand it, you do not have to agree to see the EHS if you do not want to. It is supposed to be voluntary, though your Manager will not tell you that. Your doctor knows you, and his certificate should be good enough.

bigsharkboy · Post by **bigsharkboy** » 29 Jul 2007, 23:27

all royal mail accidents are now renamed incidents and they count them toward yer sick as you were not being careful enough

this was actually said to me when i represented someone at a stage 1 sickness we stuck in a grievance and won

Post by **Carnoustie** » 30 Jul 2007, 10:09

Good to know, biggazza. I'll be ready for 'em if they try to class mine as 'an incident'

richardh · Post by **richardh** » 30 Jul 2007, 11:57

If an accident is put on ERICA as an accident they can't change that to an incident also if your off for more than a week it becomes a RIDDOR which means HSE can and usually will start investigating RM don't like it when that happens never mind eh! :lfo :cfo

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'First day of absence'

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