a lapsing debate

[bensonhedge]

should part time staff on 22 or 30 hr contracts have to lapse.my opinion is no.time is saved in the office on ips.full time staff can be through very early some mornings.30 hr staff gain very little time and bag carriers virtually none.is the system fair?

[POSTMAN]

Yes they should IF they have time.But most should not have the time.

Lapsing/absorbing is to save the full duty hrs,not just bits of it.

PS:Not my rules...

[TrueBlueTerrier]

should part time staff on 22 or 30 hr contracts have to lapse.my opinion is no.time is saved in the office on ips.full time staff can be through very early some mornings.30 hr staff gain very little time and bag carriers virtually none.is the system fair?

You should only be lapsing if there is spare capacity within your hours, it does not matter whether your PT, FT or a waysider. Now if you are paid till 2.00 pm and finish at 1pm (after taking a break obviously) then you have spare capacity and there can be no sensible argument about not working your hours.

If you wish you can make it easier for a Manger to insist you lapse by.

1. Coming in early.
2. Not taking your break.
3. Using your car to get out.
4. Using your car as a mobile pouch drop.
5. Prepping D2Ds outside of working hours.
6. Taking out more than 1 pouch
7. Taking out overweight pouches.

And I will not condemn those that chose to do any of these things, after all living in democracy that recognises freedom of speech and freedom of action means we accept that people have the right to make these decisions even if we disagree with them. However, if you do voluntarily choose to do any of the above you can hardly expect Royal Mail not to use the time you have freed up can you.

Every action has a consequence and you should only carry out those actions when you are fully aware of all possible results whether fair or not.

[fishtank]

The only thing i would add to TBTs post is that as far as i'm aware the 3.5hr maximum delivery span is still in place if you do not have the new delivery methods yet so you should not be lapsing as part of your delivery IF this will take you beyond your 3.5hrs.
If this is the case then lapsing indoor work would be more appropriate,if in doubt....speak to your rep to make sure there are no local agreements to go beyond 3.5hrs.

[worktotime]

The only thing i would add to TBTs post is that as far as i'm aware the 3.5hr maximum delivery span is still in place if you do not have the new delivery methods yet so you should not be lapsing as part of your delivery IF this will take you beyond your 3.5hrs.
If this is the case then lapsing indoor work would be more appropriate,if in doubt....speak to your rep to make sure there are no local agreements to go beyond 3.5hrs.

can i just say in our office 31 hr men are coming in 1hr and 20mins early everyday and still lapsing (idiots) and we have been told by dim and cwu rep that 3.5hr delivery has been lifted and i do a round which is 4.30 hrs long ,and was geo routed at 5hrs + , what realy pisses me off is every office is different i thought it was one in all in , save , save comes to mind.

[fishtank]

The only thing i would add to TBTs post is that as far as i'm aware the 3.5hr maximum delivery span is still in place if you do not have the new delivery methods yet so you should not be lapsing as part of your delivery IF this will take you beyond your 3.5hrs.
If this is the case then lapsing indoor work would be more appropriate,if in doubt....speak to your rep to make sure there are no local agreements to go beyond 3.5hrs.

can i just say in our office 31 hr men are coming in 1hr and 20mins early everyday and still lapsing (idiots) and we have been told by dim and cwu rep that 3.5hr delivery has been lifted and i do a round which is 4.30 hrs long ,and was geo routed at 5hrs + , what realy pisses me off is every office is different i thought it was one in all in , save , save comes to mind.

The agreement states that....

In units where agreement for change is required in advance of local deployment of the transformation project/delivery methods, consideration can be given to varying the span length provided that genuine and demonstrable solutions to weight and fatigue are introduced.

So i would be asking your rep and DOM two things.
1) Where is the AGREEMENT FOR CHANGE?
2) What are the genuine and demonstrable solutions to weight and fatigue?

And their answers had better be good ones.

[dvbuk55]

The only thing i would add to TBTs post is that as far as i'm aware the 3.5hr maximum delivery span is still in place if you do not have the new delivery methods yet so you should not be lapsing as part of your delivery IF this will take you beyond your 3.5hrs.
If this is the case then lapsing indoor work would be more appropriate,if in doubt....speak to your rep to make sure there are no local agreements to go beyond 3.5hrs.

Yes you would think that the 3.5 hour delivery span still holds the field - however, our lapsees are being allowed to leave 40 minutes early to complete their lapsing, which would mean their delivery span, on foot is now 4 hours 10 minutes.

I may have also posted in error that the delivery span for CDV was 4 hrs 15 mins but I found out today by accident it is actual 4 hours 35 minutes.

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

Anyone in the office who is finishing before their contract time, after taking their rightful meal relief break(s), should not not feel aggrieved by being asked to do additional work (whether this be lapsing; killing "deads" from any frame(s) in depot; prepping D2D for any frame(s) in depot etc.). "Job and finish" is dead, long live returning to the depot directly after a walk... But then actually get the flyers to do some work until finish time instead of letting them cycle/drive by posties like myself with walks that must have been done by a very drunk/stoned Pegasus on a Friday afternoon!

I was livid when I heard that someone in our depot finished their round at 115 this Tuesday after going out with six small-medium bundles in total; went for a haircut; went for a nice cup or tea or two; before returning to the depot and even then leaving signifacantly early!
On that same day, someone from that same area had been asked to come in on their day off, due to annual leave within their section...

Now I'm not aiming my anger completely at the postie in question, its at the area manager not making proper use of the people that were due to come in that day and then the "sub-DOM" having the gaul to give part-timers in our depot the Spanish inquition about going over! I'm relishing the next time this "sub-DOM" questions my round time, I'm going to question the management's ethos of not making proper use of the work time of everyone in the depot and that they could save thousands a year by doing their job properly!

If these urine-taking rounds from that section were recognised, the posties on these rounds could assist walks in my section that are completely unrealistic to do in 3.5 hours, by doing either/or/and deads/lapsing i.e. giving us more outdoor time, instead of laughing at "right of way" (with easy section chomping at bit to go from 0900) when we are still doing redirections before bundling up!

[worktotime]

The only thing i would add to TBTs post is that as far as i'm aware the 3.5hr maximum delivery span is still in place if you do not have the new delivery methods yet so you should not be lapsing as part of your delivery IF this will take you beyond your 3.5hrs.
If this is the case then lapsing indoor work would be more appropriate,if in doubt....speak to your rep to make sure there are no local agreements to go beyond 3.5hrs.

can i just say in our office 31 hr men are coming in 1hr and 20mins early everyday and still lapsing (idiots) and we have been told by dim and cwu rep that 3.5hr delivery has been lifted and i do a round which is 4.30 hrs long ,and was geo routed at 5hrs + , what realy pisses me off is every office is different i thought it was one in all in , save , save comes to mind.

The agreement states that....

In units where agreement for change is required in advance of local deployment of the transformation project/delivery methods, consideration can be given to varying the span length provided that genuine and demonstrable solutions to weight and fatigue are introduced.

So i would be asking your rep and DOM two things.
1) Where is the AGREEMENT FOR CHANGE?
2) What are the genuine and demonstrable solutions to weight and fatigue?

And their answers had better be good ones.

the problem is that rep in our office is the area rep and he is to busy laughing and joking with the dims when he is there but hes never there, away on union work ,

[dvbuk55]

Anyone in the office who is finishing before their contract time, after taking their rightful meal relief break(s), should not not feel aggrieved by being asked to do additional work (whether this be lapsing; killing "deads" from any frame(s) in depot; prepping D2D for any frame(s) in depot etc.). "Job and finish" is dead, long live returning to the depot directly after a walk... But then actually get the flyers to do some work until finish time instead of letting them cycle/drive by posties like myself with walks that must have been done by a very drunk/stoned Pegasus on a Friday afternoon!

I was livid when I heard that someone in our depot finished their round at 115 this Tuesday after going out with six small-medium bundles in total; went for a haircut; went for a nice cup or tea or two; before returning to the depot and even then leaving signifacantly early!
On that same day, someone from that same area had been asked to come in on their day off, due to annual leave within their section...

Now I'm not aiming my anger completely at the postie in question, its at the area manager not making proper use of the people that were due to come in that day and then the "sub-DOM" having the gaul to give part-timers in our depot the Spanish inquition about going over! I'm relishing the next time this "sub-DOM" questions my round time, I'm going to question the management's ethos of not making proper use of the work time of everyone in the depot and that they could save thousands a year by doing their job properly!

If these urine-taking rounds from that section were recognised, the posties on these rounds could assist walks in my section that are completely unrealistic to do in 3.5 hours, by doing either/or/and deads/lapsing i.e. giving us more outdoor time, instead of laughing at "right of way" (with easy section chomping at bit to go from 0900) when we are still doing redirections before bundling up!

I'll just bet you are a part timer with no seniority

[IloveMYredTROLLEY!]

I have seniority over ~10 others ( ), but this is not the point of my moan...

Its the fact that "job and finish" is over, everyone is supposed to head directly back to the depot once their walk is complete, yet not once since this has been on an A1 board by our double doors has a manager actually requested anyone returning early to do a thing... So what's the point of getting everyone to return?

Its about double standards by the "sub-DOM." If he is so upset about me and other part-timers going over, increasing the overspend total, he should be even more livid about full-timers being paid to have haircuts during working hours and enjoying a beer in their back garden during work contract hours. A workforce should be using all contract hours up before having to pay overtime to anyone...

If anything, it should be the part-timers on these urine-taking walks, as it means a 22.5 per week could actually be completed including the indoor work (D2D; redirects; back-facing for packets; final IPS cleardown) and meal relief without the need for overtime.

As I've written several times before on here, I chose my walk (the busy end of the high street plus ~500 residential) to increase the odds of getting overtime about my 22.5 hour contract, when it is warranted (which is usually everyday except Saturday and Monday). In all honesty, I will almost certainly snap it up again when the re-sign time comes, its the only way RM can pay me enough money to support my family (as there's more chance of seeing flying pigs than having my hours officially incresed to 30+ in this day and age).

In an ideal world, the section I work in would be completely re-done by Geo/Pegasus/{another wonderful computer program, that takes into account 10 minute waits to get a special signature in the bank, mrs Bloggs running after me screaming "you left this card earlier for a special etc.}

However, it is not unreasonable to expect colleagues on other walks that can be completed quicker to be doing work-related material at a reasonable speed until their contract time ends.

Edit: Something else to think about... Different grades of walks with differing rates of pay... I bet the urine-taking rounds would not be getting bagsied by the seniors so quickly then!

[dvbuk55]

Here's something else to think about - if you had over 20 years service, and was senior to 150 colleagues would you be making the same posts? It's a no brainer really isn't it?

[whisperlite6]

[quote="IloveMYredTROLLEY!"]Anyone in the office who is finishing before their contract time, after taking their rightful meal relief break(s), should not not feel aggrieved by being asked to do additional work (whether this be lapsing; killing "deads" from any frame(s) in depot; prepping D2D for any frame(s) in depot etc.). "Job and finish" is dead, long live returning to the depot directly after a walk... But then actually get the flyers to do some work until finish time instead of letting them cycle/drive by posties like myself with walks that must have been done by a very drunk/stoned Pegasus on a Friday afternoon!

I was livid when I heard that someone in our depot finished their round at 115 this Tuesday after going out with six small-medium bundles in total; went for a haircut; went for a nice cup or tea or two; before returning to the depot and even then leaving signifacantly early!


In our office we are covering three rounds with "summer" lapsing with the DOM suggesting that we can lapse/ absorb another two rounds on top of this -- This is despite the mail volume being up by at least 12 % on this time last year. As a part timer I do as much lapsing as a full timer. Is this fair? Probably not. However, at least we only do 5 days of lapsing.

[BELIAL]

Long and short of it is there are still inbreeds who come in early ,use their cars ,work through meal relief ,run like Forest ,even though they get f**k all for D2D now.
Lets face it ,some puddings will slit their own wrists if you told them it felt good

[chunk]

should part time staff on 22 or 30 hr contracts have to lapse.my opinion is no.time is saved in the office on ips.full time staff can be through very early some mornings.30 hr staff gain very little time and bag carriers virtually none.is the system fair?

Had this argument in our office, dom says everyone should absorb
so I say is everyones job equally hard? and does everyone finish at the same time?
" you made an hour Monday you can do it for me" i say "based on last week ill probably be going over 3 times by the end of the week" "so making
an hour doesn't balance the books".

its difficult to believe that a part timer will have spare-time ( capacity)
don't take it with you. I say "if I'm back in time ill take it out".
the danger is you will be out there at 2.00pm just finished your walk
and with a bundle of mail from a collapsed round and its now your problem.

look at this way.. you could lose your job now for refusing to do d2d
concentrate on that! make sure all aspects of your job redirects kill-offs etc take precedence over absorption.
absorbtion is a bonus item for managers .
should you arrive back at the office in plenty of time no problem but thats only really likely on a mon or tues.