April membership joiners and leavers

[Martin Walsh]

A lot of indivduals have said the union is finished and they were leaving well the April figures do not bear that out. Of course the May figures may show a different picture but for the record in April region by region in the Postal side of the union it showed the following

Eastern region 24 joined 16 left meaning a net gain of 8
Midlands region 68 joined and 24 left meaning a net gain of 44
North East 54 joined and 27 left meaning a gain of 27
Northern Ireland 5 joined and 4 left meaning a net gain of 1
North West 48 joined and 54 left meaning a net loss of 6
Scotland 41 joined and 21 left meaning a net gain of 20
South East 35 joined and 32 left meaning a net gain of 3
South West 63 joined and 46 left meaning a net gain of 17
Welsh 14 joined and 13 left meaning a net gain of 1
London 54 joined and 36 left meaning a net gain of 18

So in total a net gain of the postal side of 145 members.

On the BT side the membership loss is far greater a net loss of

Eastern 35 joined and 85 left a net loss of 50
Midlands 65 joined and 141 left a net loss of 76
North East 138 joined and 247 left net loss of 109
Northern Ireland 15 joined 36 left net loss of 21
North West 117 joined and 166 left net loss of 49
Scotland 56 joined and 126 left net loss 70
South East 12 joined and 51 left net loss of 39
South West 45 joined and 131 left net loss of 86
Welsh 36 joined 129 left net loss of 93
London 44 joined and 183 left net loss of -139

So in April the Postal Membership went up and the BT membership went down.

I wonder what the May membership results will be ??

[donut]

A lot of indivduals have said the union is finished and they were leaving well the April figures do not bear that out. Of course the May figures may show a different picture but for the record in April region by region in the Postal side of the union it showed the following

Eastern region 24 joined 16 left meaning a net gain of 8
Midlands region 68 joined and 24 left meaning a net gain of 44
North East 54 joined and 27 left meaning a gain of 27
Northern Ireland 5 joined and 4 left meaning a net gain of 1
North West 48 joined and 54 left meaning a net loss of 6
Scotland 41 joined and 21 left meaning a net gain of 20
South East 35 joined and 32 left meaning a net gain of 3
South West 63 joined and 46 left meaning a net gain of 17
Welsh 14 joined and 13 left meaning a net gain of 1
London 54 joined and 36 left meaning a net gain of 18

So in total a net gain of the postal side of 145 members.

On the BT side the membership loss is far greater a net loss of

Eastern 35 joined and 85 left a net loss of 50
Midlands 65 joined and 141 left a net loss of 76
North East 138 joined and 247 left net loss of 109
Northern Ireland 15 joined 36 left net loss of 21
North West 117 joined and 166 left net loss of 49
Scotland 56 joined and 126 left net loss 70
South East 12 joined and 51 left net loss of 39
South West 45 joined and 131 left net loss of 86
Welsh 36 joined 129 left net loss of 93
London 44 joined and 183 left net loss of -139

So in April the Postal Membership went up and the BT membership went down.

I wonder what the May membership results will be ??

That`s strange and just a bit weird......so going by your figures all the people that left the union in the midlands region (24)
were all from my office !! ...spooky !

[Flatlander]

Thanks Dingo, is there any particular reason for the BT losses you know of?

[fishtank]

Yes dingo the postal side held up well in april,i would imagine if members were going to leave most would have waited until the result of the ballot was announced.
As you say May's figures will be far more revealing but it is still very worrying that despite the postal side holding up the union still finds itself more than 500 members lighter,BT or RM makes no difference to the bottom line i'm afraid.

[Stormproof]

May's figures will reveal the truth and I'm sure a big shock for HQ.

[dvbuk55]

By dingo publishing the figures, he seems to somehow believe that in some way they vindicate the 2010 and Beyond Agreement - they don't and the May figures will probably be worse - considering no workshops have taken place, RM and the CWU are just coming to the table to decide how to implement the agreement, and in essence no changes have taken place yet and the shark is yet to bite. People don't even know what they have agreed to yet, they obviously swallowed the snake oil in copious amounts, election material agreement? - still unpaid, £400 for ALL - well that certainly was a lie.

How much better would it have been if more people had joined and no-one had left?

[Martin Walsh]

By dingo publishing the figures, he seems to somehow believe that in some way they vindicate the 2010 and Beyond Agreement - they don't and the May figures will probably be worse - considering no workshops have taken place, RM and the CWU are just coming to the table to decide how to implement the agreement, and in essence no changes have taken place yet and the shark is yet to bite. People don't even know what they have agreed to yet, they obviously swallowed the snake oil in copious amounts, election material agreement? - still unpaid, £400 for ALL - well that certainly was a lie.

How much better would it have been if more people had joined and no-one had left?

Considering we had mail centres closing , and people retiring , leaving , and yes getting sacked you will never get a month when no one leaves the union.

I published the membership leavers and joiners to allow people to see what they were, nothing more and nothing less. My guess is the numbers joining were as a result of some of the campaigns branch`s made to ensure that people had a vote.

May will also show whether the numbers leaving are above what previous months trends have shown or not.

Now in terms of the workshops there is a number of meetings this week which will hopefully clarify things.

However at the moment nothing should change until we have an agreement on those issues which are at the heart of the national agreement. Now in terms of £400 I suggust you take that up with you manager. The union and management knew that past payments on Colleague share have been pro rata, I suggust you look up your share cerificate and it wll state it on that as well. No in terms of the free election material well there are still ongiong discussions on that matter including confirming with the body which authorises free election material what the central fund paid for. Remember that is what free election material is .

A lot of of the parties funded over an above this free election material the tories with Ashcroft money and was sent 1st or DSA this is what is currently being debated at national level.

[rhino49]

May's figures will reveal the truth and I'm sure a big shock for HQ.

It will be the same type of shock as the one we got when 90,000 "NO" voters didn't turn up - things are never what they seem - we even had Sausage Chips and Beans in our office who said they had actually left the union, then it turns out that they are still members. The angry young men (and women) in our business are presently generating enough hot air to melt what is left of Antarctica but in reality I think they will all just get on with the job WITH whatever protection their union can give them.

[DirtyHarry]

As I've said before, I will leave this travesty of a trade union once,
A. I receive more than three lots of shyte to deliver in the week.
B. I'm told that I'll have to work a minute longer than I already do on a Saturday.
And I won't be the only one.
It didn't happen in April, it doesn't look as though it will be May, even June may be too soon, but it will happen, I can assure you.

[Carnoustie]

... Now in terms of £400 I suggest you take that up with you manager. The union and management knew that past payments on Colleague share have been pro rata, I suggest you look up your share cerificate and it wll state it on that as well.

The £400 payment was taken from a pot of money previously allocated to the ColleagueShare scheme.
ColleagueShare payments were indeed pro-rata, when previous dividends were paid, BUT ...
This was not a ColleagueShare payment, it was a Ratification payment, using CS monies. But the agreement is worded quite specifically stating that ALL employees would get £400. No mention of pro-rata.

Answer me this question: Did full-time people on permanent contracts who started after April 2007 receive the recent £400 payment ? Because if, as you imply, this was a ColleagueShare payment, then they would not meet the qualifying criteria, and would have got nothing.

If, however, they DID get the recent £400, does that not then prove this was NOT in fact a CS payment and thus should have been paid as per the words in the 2010 And Beyond agreement... a payment of £400 to ALL employees

Care to comment, Dingo ?

[dvbuk55]

By dingo publishing the figures, he seems to somehow believe that in some way they vindicate the 2010 and Beyond Agreement - they don't and the May figures will probably be worse - considering no workshops have taken place, RM and the CWU are just coming to the table to decide how to implement the agreement, and in essence no changes have taken place yet and the shark is yet to bite. People don't even know what they have agreed to yet, they obviously swallowed the snake oil in copious amounts, election material agreement? - still unpaid, £400 for ALL - well that certainly was a lie.

How much better would it have been if more people had joined and no-one had left?

Considering we had mail centres closing , and people retiring , leaving , and yes getting sacked you will never get a month when no one leaves the union.

I published the membership leavers and joiners to allow people to see what they were, nothing more and nothing less. My guess is the numbers joining were as a result of some of the campaigns branch`s made to ensure that people had a vote.

May will also show whether the numbers leaving are above what previous months trends have shown or not.

Now in terms of the workshops there is a number of meetings this week which will hopefully clarify things.

However at the moment nothing should change until we have an agreement on those issues which are at the heart of the national agreement. Now in terms of £400 I suggust you take that up with you manager. The union and management knew that past payments on Colleague share have been pro rata, I suggust you look up your share cerificate and it wll state it on that as well. No in terms of the free election material well there are still ongiong discussions on that matter including confirming with the body which authorises free election material what the central fund paid for. Remember that is what free election material is .

A lot of of the parties funded over an above this free election material the tories with Ashcroft money and was sent 1st or DSA this is what is currently being debated at national level.

Oh OK dingo you have persuaded me.

Just as a matter of interest what had my manager got to do with the wording of the JOINT agreement between RM and the CWU - I mean he may have been in on the secret meetings but I doubt it - so the ALL and £400 is down to him then, so I suggest everyone who didn't get what they were expecting should write to him. The fact that the union and the management knew is totally immaterial - THE MEMBERSHIP didn't know and the likes of you DIDN'T clarify what you apparently knew.

The election material is still being debated together with the deployment of the agreement which hopefully will clarify things - and the 4 week deadline? A pig in a poke springs to mind!

[parky]

By dingo publishing the figures, he seems to somehow believe that in some way they vindicate the 2010 and Beyond Agreement - they don't and the May figures will probably be worse - considering no workshops have taken place, RM and the CWU are just coming to the table to decide how to implement the agreement, and in essence no changes have taken place yet and the shark is yet to bite. People don't even know what they have agreed to yet, they obviously swallowed the snake oil in copious amounts, election material agreement? - still unpaid, £400 for ALL - well that certainly was a lie.

How much better would it have been if more people had joined and no-one had left?

Considering we had mail centres closing , and people retiring , leaving , and yes getting sacked you will never get a month when no one leaves the union.

I published the membership leavers and joiners to allow people to see what they were, nothing more and nothing less. My guess is the numbers joining were as a result of some of the campaigns branch`s made to ensure that people had a vote.

May will also show whether the numbers leaving are above what previous months trends have shown or not.

Now in terms of the workshops there is a number of meetings this week which will hopefully clarify things

However at the moment nothing should change until we have an agreement on those issues which are at the heart of the national agreement. Now in terms of £400 I suggust you take that up with you manager. The union and management knew that past payments on Colleague share have been pro rata, I suggust you look up your share cerificate and it wll state it on that as well. No in terms of the free election material well there are still ongiong discussions on that matter including confirming with the body which authorises free election material what the central fund paid for. Remember that is what free election material is .

A lot of of the parties funded over an above this free election material the tories with Ashcroft money and was sent 1st or DSA this is what is currently being debated at national level.

Oh OK dingo you have persuaded me.

Just as a matter of interest what had my manager got to do with the wording of the JOINT agreement between RM and the CWU - I mean he may have been in on the secret meetings but I doubt it - so the ALL and £400 is down to him then, so I suggest everyone who didn't get what they were expecting should write to him. The fact that the union and the management knew is totally immaterial - THE MEMBERSHIP didn't know and the likes of you DIDN'T clarify what you apparently knew.

The election material is still being debated together with the deployment of the agreement which hopefully will clarify things - and the 4 week deadline? A pig in a poke springs to mind!

dingo, like the full time release blokes we have here you sneer at the members with you'r comments... im not surprised that the nw is down in figures as like you they treat people with contempt...

[Martin Walsh]

Dvbuk at no time did i ever say the £400 would not be paid pro rata. I did say it would be paid to indivduals who joined after 2007 and did not have colleague share certificates.

However colleague share has always been paid pro rata.

Now the reference to ask your manager is that you can hardly now ask the union can you.

North West membership is down due to the closures of mail centres nothing else.

Dvbuk you give myself enough crass comments and criticism you really should not moan when I give you one back.

[smarterdarter]

I'm one of the 54 and it had nothing to do with MCs closing!!!!
the NW mail centres closed (moved) months ago ?????

[Big Daz]

dingo

You are mssing the points being made, those points are that the wording of the agreement did not match the reality of the £400 payment.

The agreement makes clear the payment is not CS money and uses the word ALL in terms of payment. Reality is the members were not given the correct and full info.

The fact that CS has been pro rata in the past has nothing to do with the point that everyone should have got the full £400, the money is not CS anymore and unlike the £1000 there is no mention of pro rata for the £400. The £1000 which is also no longer CS money makes clear that money is pro rata so if the £400 was allways meant to be pro rata why didnt the agreement state that?

To read the agreement as meaning £400 for everyone is a perfectly sensible view point, why cant the powers that be admit they made a mistake with the wording and say sorry?