Is Trade Unionism Dead?

[pickaname]

More and more people are leaving trade unions and less people are joining them.

Trade unions seem indistiguishable from management these days. CWU, Unite etc all speak about protecting their members interests but constantly sign off their terms and conditions, pensions and benefits in favour of corporate profits in a supposedly public service. Does a public service even need to make a profit?

All the while subs go up and union leaders are commanding bigger and bigger salaries with one eye on a lordship or parliamentary seat.

Government legislation makes it increasingly difficult for a trade union to operate effectively thereby marginalising the membership. Would unions in france or greece, for example, have negotiated the 2010 & Beyond and would its members accepted it? Is it worth being a member of a trade union when they have to be dragged kicking and screaming (ala CWU 2009) into national IA.

Is, therefore, the trade union movement in this country dead and if so why?

[eian687]

the only decent thing about the CWU and the only reason i have not yet left is the Legal and Medical side.................simpson and millard have twice helped me,, both times for accidents at work and have got me over £3000 on those 2 occassions, some might say you can get this service free from the no win nofees solicitors, but simpson millard know all the tricks R M will try to use to get out of claims

[Martin Walsh]

No trade unionism is not dead. Unlike other countries where the law protects the right to strike , the UK does not.

Europe in the main have better employment rights then the UK. Remember some still have closed shops.

Now in terms of trade unions in this country , percentage of workforce to trade union members are increasing not decreasing. However the numbers in trade unions are decreasing as organisations like BT , Royal Mail and others are cutting jobs.

Now lets have a look at whether the CWU and other unions would accept worse deals. Well unions over many years do when a company is in finacial problems. Some agree 3 day weeks etc.

Look at TNT in Holland for example who imposed 3 years of basic pay cuts and the union did nothing.

The union is only as strong as the members at the end of the day. Look around you have offices with varying degrees of part timers to full timers , varying degrees of walks , overtime levels and attendance patterns.

I think every Branch knows what offices get the best deals and are stong and what ones get the worse.

Last years dispute we had places like Guildford working and they were not the only ones. Why ? Well it normally is the ones where Branch organisation is not so strong and local and area comms have failed.

Lets have a look at the company is it in a great state ? It pays 30 pence of every £1 it makes back into the pension fund. That is on the current deficit . The new defcit not announced yet but we know from trustees to be £10 billion up 6 billion.

We have a company which has unfair competition from DSA and is losing money and revenue to it. We cannot change it as it will break european laws.

Now lets look at what the union has achieved over the last few years

5 day week for all up to 2003 most in deliveries worked 6 day per week.

Paid meal reliefs including increasing meal reliefs in 2003.

Option of further improved attendances.

Basic pay will have gone up by £140 national rate from 2003 till the end of this new deal.

Some of the best terms on redundancies and protecton of allowances around in the uk. (ask those in PCS who are stirking whether they would like our terms )

A shorter working week , what other trade union has sercured a shorter working week and a pay rise in the last couple of years. With paid meal reliefs a full timers will be working just above 35 hours right at the top of the league for workers in the UK. Part timers will also see their pay increase as a result of the shorter working week.

Protection of full time jobs. You talk about strong unions aboard but Holland , Germany , Italy , France and Greece have all got more part timers in their mail system then the UK will have as a result of this union protecting full time jobs.

Now will the union survive yes it will. Some will leave but all that does is make their offices easier targets for Royal Mail to attack and introduce things.

Non union members become isolated and free load on the backs of other offices. Strong offices always have a high propotion of union members.

Being outside of the union has one attraction a saving of contributions. Being in the union means your protected by agreements and that you have a voice.

Look at all the disputes we have had over attacks on workers be that the Bristol 3 cases , the Burslem cases or any dispute over conduct or attandance or bullying.

If your a non member you wont get that collective support. You dont have a voice in the workplace.

So trade union membership maybe declining as jobs go but being in a trade union has never been more important and remember it is still the biggest voluntary organisation in the UK.

[Wessex]

I thought the number of trade union members in the uk was static after a big fall after the seventies

[fishtank]

I thought the number of trade union members in the uk was static after a big fall after the seventies

Even before this agreement the CWU was losing members at the rate of over a 1000 a month.
The real problem is not how many you lose but can you engage non-members to join to replace those that leave.
With at least 12,000 projected redundances and the vast majority of those union members some harsh decisions will have to be made at HQ and Branch level.
It would not surprise me if many of the branches are amalgamated into geographically larger branches to reflect reducing membership numbers.

[Lounge Lizard]

I thought the number of trade union members in the uk was static after a big fall after the seventies

Even before this agreement the CWU was losing members at the rate of over a 1000 a month.
The real problem is not how many you lose but can you engage non-members to join to replace those that leave.
With at least 12,000 projected redundances and the vast majority of those union members some harsh decisions will have to be made at HQ and Branch level.
It would not surprise me if many of the branches are amalgamated into geographically larger branches to reflect reducing membership numbers.

and before long it will be one big national branch for deliveries, one for mail centres, etc. all in the name of efficiency of course.
I've known that in a previous employment, regular trips to London for meetings.

[Tman]

Is, therefore, the trade union movement in this country dead and if so why?

Why should you care? As you keep saying, you've left the CWU,and as RM doesn't recognise any other union for posties, is it affirmation that you've done the "right thing" that you want now?

[Big Daz]

USDAW are seeing a increase in membership.

http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/inde ... full/89755" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

USDAW shopworkers' union leaders vowed on Thursday to take on bosses in the new internet economy in an aggressive organising drive to ensure the union "punches its weight" in the workplace.

Speaking on the last day of Usdaw's conference in Blackpool, union president Jeff Broome asserted that, "over the past decade, union membership across the movement has largely remained static, but Usdaw has bucked the trend and gone from strength to strength."

Mr Broome reported that the union was now aggressively organising call centres for home-shopping firms and targeting thousands of truck and delivery drivers for internet-based companies such as Ocado.

He emphasised that, "despite the effects of the recession, which has seen Woolworths closed down and shops closed on high streets throughout Britain, over 77,000 workers have joined Usdaw in the past year.

"Our organisers and workplace reps have directly signed up more than 27,000 of these new members and our membership now stands at 386,000 - the highest for more than 20 years," he said.

Usdaw general secretary John Hannett highlighted the union's Freedom From Fear campaign, which unites truck drivers, call centre staff and store assistants in demanding that bosses take responsibility for the abuse, threats and violence that these workers face on an often daily basis.

"Our organisers' success is based on hard-hitting campaigns that impact on union members' daily lives," he related.

And he added that, "although the work of our union negotiators has been set against a very difficult economic background, Usdaw union members still won an average pay increase of 2.2 per cent last year - more than double the average 1 per cent pay rise that other workers received."

But Mr Hannett emphasised that "as most high street store workers are not in unions, the size of the task we've got if we're going to punch our weight is huge.

"Union closed shops don't exist any more, so it is essential that the union proves itself to workers and shows that it can free our members from poverty pay and combat the worst effects of management behaviour in the workplace.

"Our union is being built by our reps and union organisers - ordinary workers who know, from their own daily experience, what's important," he stressed.

[fishtank]

"Our union is being built by our reps and union organisers - ordinary workers who know, from their own daily experience, what's important,"

That,I would suggest daz is why USDAW are seeing an increase in membership.

[pickaname]

Is, therefore, the trade union movement in this country dead and if so why?

Why should you care? As you keep saying, you've left the CWU,and as RM doesn't recognise any other union for posties, is it affirmation that you've done the "right thing" that you want now?

f**k off you f***ing prick...told you not to jump on my posts unless you have something constructive to add.

[Tman]

f**k off you f***ing prick...told you not to jump on my posts unless you have something constructive to add.

Ooh touchy touchy.
I think it's very constructive to point out that now's not the right time to spit your dummy out with regard to leaving the CWU.
Still, maybe you never quite grasped the concept of the union, eh?

[pickaname]

f**k off you f***ing prick...told you not to jump on my posts unless you have something constructive to add.

Ooh touchy touchy.
I think it's very constructive to point out that now's not the right time to spit your dummy out with regard to leaving the CWU.
Still, maybe you never quite grasped the concept of the union, eh?

What has my union membership got to do with anything regarding this topic? Why make the subject personal?

Im trying to start a debate here and you have nothing to add other than personal insults and attacks. In fact that is the only reason you come on here. To provoke and prod.

Enough is enough.

Im complaining to the mods about your conduct and hopefully they will take notice and ban you.

[dvbuk55]

The problem is endemic across trade unionism, they are still in the smokey pub back room with the cloth cap mentality and the less than adequate managers of union affairs.

Should elected leaders actually be running the affairs of the membership where success or failure means nothing because the chances are that they are not going to be de-selected regardless of how bad they are.

The vision of the leadership is not necessarily aligned to that of the membership but more to its own survival and to a political agenda. That is not necessarily true of all unions, some of which have clearly disassociated themselves from the political arena.

The financial status of a union is crucial to it's success and clearly this union has lived beyond its means for quite some time. This state of affairs cannot continue whilst membership level falls and the performance of the union does nothing to engender trust in current nor prospective members.

The CWU seems to have aligned itself with the management and will find it very difficult to disengage itself from the current agreement further alienating existing/future members. In order to be a power in the workplace a union must become a more professional organisation based on a totally different structure, with educated professionals in key roles capable of negotiating in the modern world. The current structure of this union has more in common to the court of King Henry than a modern organisation.

[Lounge Lizard]

"The CWU seems to have aligned itself with the management " - too true, before long you'll need a masonic handshake to get any role in the CWU.

[fishtank]

Trade union membership: National trends
• The union density for employees in the UK was unchanged at 27.4 per cent in 2009 compared with 2008. This is largely due to trade union membership falling at broadly the same rate as total employment over the last year. Amongst all those in employment, including self-employed, in the UK, union density fell from 24.9 per cent in 2008 to 24.7 per cent in 2009.

• Trade union membership levels for UK employees fell by 2.4 per cent (163 thousand) to 6.7 million compared with 2008. Membership for those in employment fell by 2.3 per cent (165 thousand) to 7.1 million, in the sameperiod.

• Union density among female employees in the UK rose by 0.2 percentage points to 29.5 per cent in 2009 but amongst male employees it fell by 0.4 percentage points to 25.2 per cent. This was the eighth consecutive year where female union density was higher than males and the gap widened by a further 0.6 percentage points compared with 2008.
• Private and public sector union densities fell by around half a percentage point each to 15.1 and 56.6 per cent respectively in 2009.

Trade union membership: Personal, work and job characteristics
• Union density was highest in professional occupations at 44.9 per cent whilst sales occupations had the lowest at 13.1 per cent.
• Females had higher union densities in 2009 than males in all occupations except administrative & secretarial, skilled trades, operatives and
elementary occupations.
• Trade union density was highest for men in public administration and defence whilst for women this was in education at around 54 per cent
each.
• Employees of a UK nationality have a higher union density of 28.1 per cent compared with non UK nationals whose union density is 21.4 per cent.

Trade union membership: Trends over time
• In 2009, Northern Ireland had the highest union density (39.9 per cent of employees); this was followed by Wales (35.4 per cent) and Scotland (31.8 per cent) whilst England had the lowest (26.1 per cent).
• Between 1999 and 2009, trade union density grew only in Northern Ireland by 4.2 percentage points, it remained unchanged in England but fell in
Wales and Scotland by 1.9 and 1.0 percent points respectively.
• Amongst the English regions, London recorded the largest decrease in union density of 2.2 per cent over the decade; this was followed by
Yorkshire and Humberside (down 0.9 per cent) and East Midlands (down 0.4 per cent). Union density rose in the remaining regions.
• Over the period 1999 to 2009, union density grew only in the retail industry by just over 10 per cent - mining industry recorded the sharpest fall.