The Most Unfair Pay Deal in the History of RMG

[Running Man]

Being a counter colleague I maybe don't fully appreciate the finer detail of what's gone on with the recently accepted pay deal in Royal Mail but I have two questions that really concern me.

1. Why did 50,000 (YES- FIFTY THOUSAND) people choose not to vote in the ballot?

2. Am I correct in assuming that this deal makes thousands of our delivery staff worse off whilst making thousands of our mail centre staff better off?

Any answers would be greatly appreciated as I am struggling to comprehend how such a terrible deal came to be accepted.

On a personal note I reckon this deal gives RM managers 'carte blanche' to do exactly what they want in the future. (That's if they aren't already doing that!)

[el_cartero]

why are u complaining?

u just got a 20.60 a week payrise

hows life at the counter anyway mate?

must be stressfull at times

[stokes11eg]

You'll probably find that many of the 50 thousand who didn't vote--couldn't! not everyone received ballot papers!
for thost that voted yes, most were lured by the carrot of' 'bonuses' which in effect was plundered from them in the first place. you are not the only person wondering how this was accepted.

[not me]

You'll probably find that many of the 50 thousand who didn't vote--couldn't! not everyone received ballot papers!
for thost that voted yes, most were lured by the carrot of' 'bonuses' which in effect was plundered from them in the first place. you are not the only person wondering how this was accepted.

how many chased it up though? how long between ballots going out and the vote?

[LJR]

Some good questions there Running Man

I think aside from not all people getting ballot papers many people just couldnt be bothered because there was no alternative to it from the CWU, it was HQs vision and aspirations that have been serviced by this deal not the members on the ground so even if you did vote no, nothing much would change because HQ lack vision and strength of purpose as well as looking after their friends in Government that are looking to be re-elected.

MC staff are not better off infact i think that they are even worse off than deliveries as CWU HQ have told RML that they can close any MCs and RDCs they wish with no interferance from the national body although sites may protest on their own with no other support from the national Union.

Its far more complicated than that and there are more reasons than these as to why and how it got through, but its enough to say when your own Union and a rabid employer work together and gang up on their own members / employees and there is no affective way to fight against them the result is pretty much certain. The representation we as members get on the ground is about as bad as you in counters and BT get infact i would say the only thing holding the CWU together are the local reps that have to battle for us each and every day.

[Biker Mouse]

why are u complaining?

u just got a 20.60 a week payrise

hows life at the counter anyway mate?

must be stressfull at times

I may be wrong but I don't think the OP will get the £20.60p supplement.

[TeeferTiger]

I believe the £20 weekly D2D thing is just for delivery staff ONLY.

[Running Man]

Thanks for the answers so far.
It seems that nobody is happy with the pay deal for a variety of reasons.
Life on the counter is as stressful as you make it but generally, life on the counter is just crap! End of!!!!
We don't qualify for the £20 per week that's been referred to but I believe that talks have already started on a pay deal for counter staff. Shouldn't take them long to decide that there's no money to offer a pay rise should it?
As for ballot papers getting lost then surely that's a good reason to hold a fresh more robust ballot in the hope of more people having their say on the deal. I can't believe that over 50,000 people were not interested enough to vote!
Anyway I think we can all agree that Royal Mail Group is one hell of a bad place to be at the moment whichever part you work in. Is that fair comment?
For now it still pays the mortgage- JUST!

[TeeferTiger]

The main point that I think is unfair regarding the £20 per week D2D thingy, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, is that if a P/T OPG is covering a F/T duty and doing F/T hours, how is it that they still get the payment pro rata?!

The way things stand at the moment, you get paid for going to the houses effectively. The more houses you have, the more payment you receive.

A F/T OPG with 600 houses isn't going to be happy about receiving the same amount of money as someone who has a rural duty with only 200 calls.

I just don't think the £20 way of doing things is fair.

OK, they say "you get paid it even when you're not in work" but if you're only getting pro rata or a less fair share, then it doesn't really matter, there's still gonna be more losers with this scenario.

I still don't think the pro rata thing in general is fair. I realise this might seem like I'm biased as I'm on a 29.4 (yes, 29.4!!) hour contract. I've been working F/T hours for nearly a year now covering this that and the other but when the bonuses come round, I'll get a pro rata bonus. Yet they guy on the frame next to me who does no more work than he has to (I have to actually work 40 hours to get paid for them, he gets his contracted hours even if he does less), gets the full bonus.

Anyhoo, I just feel sorry for the people joining the company now. Gone right down hill in recent years and it's not going to get better. I've started doing a degree so I can get the flip out of this mess!

[dblad]

The main point that I think is unfair regarding the £20 per week D2D thingy, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, is that if a P/T OPG is covering a F/T duty and doing F/T hours, how is it that they still get the payment pro rata?!

The way things stand at the moment, you get paid for going to the houses effectively. The more houses you have, the more payment you receive.

A F/T OPG with 600 houses isn't going to be happy about receiving the same amount of money as someone who has a rural duty with only 200 calls.

I just don't think the £20 way of doing things is fair.

OK, they say "you get paid it even when you're not in work" but if you're only getting pro rata or a less fair share, then it doesn't really matter, there's still gonna be more losers with this scenario.

I still don't think the pro rata thing in general is fair. I realise this might seem like I'm biased as I'm on a 29.4 (yes, 29.4!!) hour contract. I've been working F/T hours for nearly a year now covering this that and the other but when the bonuses come round, I'll get a pro rata bonus. Yet they guy on the frame next to me who does no more work than he has to (I have to actually work 40 hours to get paid for them, he gets his contracted hours even if he does less), gets the full bonus.

Anyhoo, I just feel sorry for the people joining the company now. Gone right down hill in recent years and it's not going to get better. I've started doing a degree so I can get the flip out of this mess!

The reason is that P/T even covering a F/T walk is still P/T and can refuse to work over his/her contracted hours, the delivery supplement is based on your cotractual hours not the hours you work, well that is how my rep explained it to me, plus, don't class every rural as being in the countryside and small, I work in the subs and as such classed as rural, but my walk is 4.5 hours and if very busy over 5.

[TeeferTiger]

The main point that I think is unfair regarding the £20 per week D2D thingy, and I'm sure I've mentioned this before, is that if a P/T OPG is covering a F/T duty and doing F/T hours, how is it that they still get the payment pro rata?!

The way things stand at the moment, you get paid for going to the houses effectively. The more houses you have, the more payment you receive.

A F/T OPG with 600 houses isn't going to be happy about receiving the same amount of money as someone who has a rural duty with only 200 calls.

I just don't think the £20 way of doing things is fair.

OK, they say "you get paid it even when you're not in work" but if you're only getting pro rata or a less fair share, then it doesn't really matter, there's still gonna be more losers with this scenario.

I still don't think the pro rata thing in general is fair. I realise this might seem like I'm biased as I'm on a 29.4 (yes, 29.4!!) hour contract. I've been working F/T hours for nearly a year now covering this that and the other but when the bonuses come round, I'll get a pro rata bonus. Yet they guy on the frame next to me who does no more work than he has to (I have to actually work 40 hours to get paid for them, he gets his contracted hours even if he does less), gets the full bonus.

Anyhoo, I just feel sorry for the people joining the company now. Gone right down hill in recent years and it's not going to get better. I've started doing a degree so I can get the flip out of this mess!

The reason is that P/T even covering a F/T walk is still P/T and can refuse to work over his/her contracted hours, the delivery supplement is based on your cotractual hours not the hours you work, well that is how my rep explained it to me, plus, don't class every rural as being in the countryside and small, I work in the subs and as such classed as rural, but my walk is 4.5 hours and if very busy over 5.

Yes they CAN refuse, but if they DON'T and work the same hours, why should they be penalised just because RM don't give out FT contracts anymore? The reason they want PT workers is so they can "flex up" to cover FT duties and they don't have to pay them FT wages when they're on a week off. What if you're on a ONE hour contract brought in to cover a FT duty due to sickness? How is it fair?

And I never classed a rural duty as small. There are rural duties that can have about 200 calls and still take the 4 hours or so to do. It's not the amount of time it takes I was getting at, it was the number of calls and being paid the same amount per round regardless of the number of calls. Why should someone with only 200 calls get paid the same as someone with 600 calls? More work is involved in prepping 600 D2Ds than there is in 200!

[dblad]

Your not getting paid to deliver D2Ds now, D2D money is now being paid as the delivery supplement. BTW, I don't like this or agree with it either as I'm P/T too

[REDLETTER]

Your not getting paid to deliver D2Ds now, D2D money is now being paid as the delivery supplement. BTW, I don't like this or agree with it either as I'm P/T too

With a 4.5 hr delivery, I'd love to know what hours you do that are part time! When do you prep if P/T?

5 hrs if very busy.....just hope you claim the O/T

[Running Man]

The more stuff I read about this deal the more depressing it gets!
It still totally baffles me how the CWU managed to 'sell' this deal to its members and then how those that were able to vote, voted 'YES'.
Let me say again that I work for counters and I can see, having read a notice board presentation prepared by the local CWU rep, that this is clearly a crap deal especially for the posties who seem to get the mucky end of the stick day in and day out.
I think the post that refers to bonuses being made up of money taken from you anyway is absolutely spot on and, in all honesty, it beggars belief that the majority of staff who voted 'YES' were obviously not able to see through this before casting their vote.
A great move by Aprilaydee in beginning to study for a degree and the very best of luck to you in finding a job with a decent employer when you achieve your goal; the only goal worth achieving with Royal Mail Group at present is redundancy before this Godforsaken place gets any worse, if that's possible!!!

[Big Daz]

why are u complaining?

u just got a 20.60 a week payrise

hows life at the counter anyway mate?

must be stressfull at times

el-carteo

You owe running man a apology

He works for Post Office Ltd NOT Royal Mail Letters

Post office staff have nothing to do the 2010 and beyond agreement.

The annual pay talks for the post office only began this week,