No OT if delivering election material?

[meercat]

I was under the impression that it was illegal to make people do overtime without paying them for it? I was told today by a manager that we can't claim OT if we are delivering (and claiming for) election material. Yes we are paid a seperate payment per item but that doesn't absolve them of their legal responsibility to pay workers for the hours they work does it?

[AnotherLimey]

I was under the impression that it was illegal to make people do overtime without paying them for it? I was told today by a manager that we can't claim OT if we are delivering (and claiming for) election material. Yes we are paid a seperate payment per item but that doesn't absolve them of their legal responsibility to pay workers for the hours they work does it?

Good question and i too would like an answer on this.

[feduppostie]

I think the thinking around it is that you are being paid for them ( the seperate payment) so to pay you for going over as well would be paying you twice

of course if your mail is extremely heavy that day and you would have gone over even without the leaflets then o/t should be paid - if the only reason you went over is because you took the leaflets to every house then you have already been paid and so no o/t is due

I think that is how it works anyway

[rhino49]

My manager asked me if I was going over because of my election leaflets when I went into the office to book extended delivery. I said no - I prepped them in my own time and I'm only taking it to addresses with mail already in the frame - no problem, but I suspect that if I was going to every address with them he would have disagreed with my claim.

[meercat]

Thanks for the answers so far but the question remains - does this piece-work payment absolve them of their legal responsibility to pay workers for overtime worked?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

I was under the impression that it was illegal to make people do overtime without paying them for it? I was told today by a manager that we can't claim OT if we are delivering (and claiming for) election material. Yes we are paid a seperate payment per item but that doesn't absolve them of their legal responsibility to pay workers for the hours they work does it?

Yep everyone has it covered basically you should have 3 days to deliver the poll cards/free election material but if you decide to take them all, even those without other mail then ypu cannot claim extended.

But if you have a 100% (or anything above the pegasus base rate) call rate before you put the poll cards in then with the DOMs permission you can claim docket. If he does not give his permission, simple don't complete and ask him what you should do.

[meercat]

I think the thinking around it is that you are being paid for them ( the seperate payment) so to pay you for going over as well would be paying you twice

We are currently paid for d2d in this way. They are prepped and delivered in duty time - as per the current agreement - plus have a seperate payment per item. Are we being paid twice or is it a combined payment package?

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Thanks for the answers so far but the question remains - does this piece-work payment absolve them of their legal responsibility to pay workers for overtime worked?

Yes - because if take them in 1 day as opposed to the 3 they give you, you have voluntarily gone beyond their instructions. Them being piece rate BTW has nothing to do with them not paying docket because you can only work docket(overtime) with the permission of the Manager.

Is it right morally - NO. But it is part of the contract that you need permission to claim overtime, at least that's the Custom and Practice.

[stupidboy]

I was under the impression that it was illegal to make people do overtime without paying them for it? I was told today by a manager that we can't claim OT if we are delivering (and claiming for) election material. Yes we are paid a seperate payment per item but that doesn't absolve them of their legal responsibility to pay workers for the hours they work does it?

i agree with you totally on this subject. if you did election material within in your hours RM don't say you won't get your wages today as you've been paid for election material.
we are paid twice,once for our normal hours of work and once for election material. why should OT be any different. just an example of RM trying to get OT done for nothing

[meercat]

Yes - because if take them in 1 day as opposed to the 3 they give you, you have voluntarily gone beyond their instructions. e.

No one said anything about doing them all in 1 day. I'm talking about following standard proceedure -to do 30% per day or whatever - and going over your time to complete the delivery. They are refusing to pay OT for this and that seems not just morally but also legally wrong.

[TrueBlueTerrier]

Yes - because if take them in 1 day as opposed to the 3 they give you, you have voluntarily gone beyond their instructions. e.

No one said anything about doing them all in 1 day. I'm talking about following standard proceedure -to do 30% per day or whatever - and going over your time to complete the delivery. They are refusing to pay OT for this and that seems not just morally but also legally wrong.

If you followed their instructions then I think you are entitled to claim Overtime and if they are refusing you have 2 options.

1. Get the reps advice and see if he can sort it out in house and informally
2. Make sure you followed all the local arrangements and agreements in force a the time and if so then enter a stage 1 grievance and follow it through to the end.

The only reason I say to make sure you followed all arrangements and agreements is because if you didn't RM will use it to refuse you the docket.

[Broxi51]

D2D's are mandatory and must be delivered. If you do 20% and go over then you claim OT.
Election material are voluntary and therefore there is no OT for them unless you would have went over anyway.

[mr hil.]

D2D's are mandatory and must be delivered. If you do 20% and go over then you claim OT.
Election material are voluntary and therefore there is no OT for them unless you would have went over anyway.

I do not think the election material is voluntary......if you are the regular duty holder you have three days to deliver addressed items and 5 (or 7) days for the un-addressed. You may use the conscience clause for anything you deem unsuitable but not for all of them........ even if you hate all politicians .....


I think as long as you are working within the standard practices and taking the three days etc. then you should be allwed to claim O.T. If your DOm refuses then you should cut off and inform him you are doing so before you leave the office so he can arrange an alternative delivery schedule for the items you are unable to take

[Broxi51]

Am pretty sure that election material is voluntary Mr Hil. I remember at the last election that a whole office in the border between scotland and england said they would not be doing them and RM had to ship posties from other offices to deliver them.
There must be something in an agreement about them as to whether they are voluntary or not.

[meercat]

Certainly addressed mail can't be refused but unaddressed election materia probably can be if they take you over the max three items of d2d peer week? They ARE d2d so anything over 3 in a week would be voluntary.

Thanks for advice on grievance haven't seen local rep since this started he may be away.

Agree if you do what percentage they say per day and you still go over they are forcing you to work duty hrs for nothing which, payment per leaflet or not, is ILLEGAL. If during the hour you go over by you don't deliver any election material because it was all at the start of your round then you are walking round with a bag of RM mail delivering it for nothing, not even minimum wage. Illegal.