North Lancs & Cumbria letter to reps

[snoddy]

Thought I would share this with RMC members.
It has been shared with the reps of NL&C and is a very honest reflection of how Delivery OPGs view the agreement.


Why I’m still voting no.

I’ve been to the liaison meeting, been to the ‘road-show’, we held a meeting and I listened to our guests, I’ve read the avalanche of paper, and I’m still not convinced.
I can live with the longer Saturdays if we can sort out fewer of them.
I’m ok with the pay rises and the lump sums.
An hour off the working week, brilliant.
Better MTSF terms, obviously that’s good too.
What about door2door?
Safeguards d2d for the future, yes, I understand that.
Built into workload, yes ok.
Guarantees a supplement and builds in early start allowance, I get that.
It allows the company to compete. Get that too.
Takes anything up to a £1000 a year from the typical postman overnight and gives it to people who have never done a d2d and in many cases never will…
No, sorry I don’t get that.
And what’s the rush? Offices that have never done d2d are not going to start tomorrow. Why give 20 quid a week supplement to some but not compensate the lads who will lose up to £1000 a year?
How is that fair?
I’ve worked out that up to 52 postmen and women will be worse off in our office because of this agreement. I cannot believe that this is what the Union and Royal Mail wanted. The more successful an area or office or individual is the more he (or she) suffers.
The Union tell us that ‘there are some losers in regard to current payments’. Yes, thousands of them. Why should some postmen be expected to take a hit whilst others receive extra?
I know for a fact that the CWU is only now checking d2d figures for individual offices and they are beginning to understand that the typical postman who does d2d is substantially worse off. That’s the typical postman not the misleading average, taking out those who do none or very few.
Now, let me be very clear.
I am not looking for a bigger pot of money I am looking for the contents of that pot to be more fairly distributed, a gradual change to payments and an acceptance that there are many people losing out. There are no extra costs involved. None.
A keystone of the agreement is ‘Transforming Relationships’ a paragraph of which states “Having agreed a shared vision of modernisation both parties will focus all our efforts on working together to deliver that vision.” It also states, “The following is our shared vision of modernisation and defines the overriding objectives of this agreement - A successful company that supports ongoing improvements to employee terms and conditions…”
If this is not to be the usual blah blah and is to be the start of a new relationship then the company and the union must prove that by listening to the many thousands of postmen who have been penalised by the d2d money distribution.
It is not good enough for officials to lecture but not listen.
It is not right for officials to state that there is no ‘plan B’.
It is just wrong that officials tell us they have secured a new relationship but to then ignore the views of its own members.
The countdown to the ballot has begun but there is still plenty of time to look at this area again. Why will the Union not look again at this when so many reps and postmen have objected? CWU officials know the scale of the problem but they are not listening.
I don’t want to vote ‘no’ I want the CWU to listen to us and to work with Royal Mail to sort this out. If I vote ‘no’ it will be because Royal Mail and the CWU have refused to listen and the talk of a ‘shared vision’ is bogus.

I accept the need for change.
I accept the need for a fresh approach to d2d.
I am not asking for a bigger pot of money.
I am looking for the contents of that pot to be more fairly distributed.
I am asking for fairness.
I am asking Royal Mail and the CWU to listen to their postmen.

[Debbie]

BRILLIANT Could not have put it better myself.

[redspartapost]

well put m8 , yes winners and lossers in this deal, more lossers than winners heard my branch scotland no2 is recomending a yes vote :

[wee jock]

well done snoddy

[jockstrapp]

I am asking Royal Mail and the CWU to listen to their postmen.

Aye and pigs will fly

[Lincox]

I sympathise with his view on D2D distribution, but what about health and safety, longer walks, and what about the unfairness in the 10% issue. How can a 40-65 year old postman rush around at the same rate as a young fit healthy postman may wish to do. Why concentrate on the unfairness of one element of pay but not recognise the dire consequences of the rest of this nonsense.

[snoddy]

well done snoddy

I would love to be able to write such an honest and eloquent letter but it was forwarded to me by another rep.
It does capture within its content not only the anomalies but also I believe the frustrations that unit reps are having to cope with. This is never more apparent then when dealing every day with questions from their members,friends and colleagues.
To have to explain to an opg on a 25hr contract whom you talked round from a non union member into joining, why that union is now discriminating against them is an impossible situation.

[abraham]

poster version just landed in my in box:
print it.

Why I’m still voting no.

I’ve been to the liaison meeting, been to the ‘road-show’, we held a meeting and I listened to our guests, I’ve read the avalanche of paper, and I’m still not convinced.

I can live with the longer Saturdays if we can sort out fewer of them.

I’m ok with the pay rises and the lump sums.

An hour off the working week, brilliant.

Better MTSF terms, obviously that’s good too.

What about door2door?

Safeguards d2d for the future, yes, I understand that.

Built into workload, yes ok.
Guarantees a supplement and builds in early start allowance, I get that.

It allows the company to compete. Get that too.

Takes anything up to a £1000 a year from the typical postman overnight and gives it to people who have never done a d2d and in many cases never will…
No, sorry I don’t get that.

And what’s the rush? Offices that have never done d2d are not going to start tomorrow. Why give 20 quid a week supplement to some but not compensate the lads who will lose up to £1000 a year?

How is that fair?

I’ve worked out that up to 52 postmen and women will be worse off in our office because of this agreement. I cannot believe that this is what the Union and Royal Mail wanted. The more successful an area or office or individual is the more he (or she) suffers.
The Union tell us that ‘there are some losers in regard to current payments’. Yes, thousands of them. Why should some postmen be expected to take a hit whilst others receive extra?

I know for a fact that the CWU is only now checking d2d figures for individual offices and they are beginning to understand that the typical postman who does d2d is substantially worse off. That’s the typical postman not the misleading average, taking out those who do none or very few.

Now, let me be very clear.
I am not looking for a bigger pot of money I am looking for the contents of that pot to be more fairly distributed, a gradual change to payments and an acceptance that there are many people losing out. There are no extra costs involved. None.

A keystone of the agreement is ‘Transforming Relationships’ a paragraph of which states “Having agreed a shared vision of modernisation both parties will focus all our efforts on working together to deliver that vision.” It also states, “The following is our shared vision of modernisation and defines the overriding objectives of this agreement - A successful company that supports ongoing improvements to employee terms and conditions…”

If this is not to be the usual blah blah and is to be the start of a new relationship then the company and the union must prove that by listening to the many thousands of postmen who have been penalised by the d2d money distribution.

It is not good enough for officials to lecture but not listen.
It is not right for officials to state that there is no ‘plan B’.
It is just wrong that officials tell us they have secured a new relationship but to then ignore the views of its own members.

The countdown to the ballot has begun but there is still plenty of time to look at this area again. Why will the Union not look again at this when so many reps and postmen have objected? CWU officials know the scale of the problem but they are not listening.

I don’t want to vote ‘no’ I want the CWU to listen to us and to work with Royal Mail to sort this out.
If I vote ‘no’ it will be because Royal Mail and the CWU have refused to listen and the talk of a ‘shared vision’ is bogus.

I accept the need for change.

I accept the need for a fresh approach to d2d.

I am not asking for a bigger pot of money.

I am looking for the contents of that pot to be more fairly distributed.

I am asking for fairness.

I am asking Royal Mail and the CWU to listen to their postmen.


April 3rd 2010

[Lounge Lizard]

Yes, but there always has been something of an an anomaly with payment for door to doors which are prepared and delivered during normal working hours.
What can the justification be for posties in effect having been paid twice for deliering door to doors ?
Shouldn't it just be a decent rate of pay for all ?
( Just playing devil's advocate here )

[abraham]

Yes, but there always has been something of an an anomaly with payment for door to doors which are prepared and delivered during normal working hours.
What can the justification be for posties in effect having been paid twice for deliering door to doors ?
Shouldn't it just be a decent rate of pay for all ?
( Just playing devil's advocate here )

not being paid twice, it would acknowledge that there would be some considerably worse off and compensate accordingly.

[abraham]

I sympathise with his view on D2D distribution, but what about health and safety, longer walks, and what about the unfairness in the 10% issue. How can a 40-65 year old postman rush around at the same rate as a young fit healthy postman may wish to do. Why concentrate on the unfairness of one element of pay but not recognise the dire consequences of the rest of this nonsense.

the 'no' campaign (if there is one) has to focus on something, something easy to understand, you are 100% right though but we've got to rally round something

[pickaname]

Yes, but there always has been something of an an anomaly with payment for door to doors which are prepared and delivered during normal working hours.
What can the justification be for posties in effect having been paid twice for deliering door to doors ?
Shouldn't it just be a decent rate of pay for all ?
( Just playing devil's advocate here )

If were being paid twice, Is it not logical for RM to take them out completely and get someone else to do them (which ive heard was on the cards before this agreement)?

If were already doing them in worktime then why is there this big ejaculation about d2d being incorporated into the workload? I find it odd that the CWU can gush about giving us extra work in less hours and less pay for more work while agreeing to job cuts and part time increase.

At the end of the day this deal is a sham. Both RM and the union are bullshitting each other.

Everyone knows d2d gets done in worktime anyway and everyone knows that putting d2d into workload wont change anything. You think you DOM is going to allow more time to prep/deliver what amounts to CRAP? Not a chance...they want savings not more hours in. Are the CWU blind?
What happens after the 3 years is up and this plan has failed 'cause us Posties dont give a crap anymore? I certainly wont care if Im not in the top 10% if im taking a pay cut of £40 a week and getting 6+ lots of d2d to worry about - no im not being difficult or lazy, its just what happens naturlly when you dont feel valued. Do RM/CWU really think were going to strive to increase our performance for the benefit of the company when were getting battered from all angles? This isnt Japan or Eastern europe you know...

Arent Posties demoralised enough?

[fishtank]

What can the justification be for posties in effect having been paid twice for deliering door to doors ?

If that is the case what is a drivers allowance? Paid twice for driving perhaps?......?
If that is the case what is a PHG allowance? Paid twice for working in the callers office.......?

And of course best of all what is a delivery supplement? Paid twice for delivering the mail.........?

[mcboing boing]

Thought I would share this with RMC members.
It has been shared with the reps of NL&C and is a very honest reflection of how Delivery OPGs view the agreement.


Why I’m still voting no.

I’ve been to the liaison meeting, been to the ‘road-show’, we held a meeting and I listened to our guests, I’ve read the avalanche of paper, and I’m still not convinced.
I can live with the longer Saturdays if we can sort out fewer of them.
I’m ok with the pay rises and the lump sums.
An hour off the working week, brilliant.
Better MTSF terms, obviously that’s good too.
What about door2door?
Safeguards d2d for the future, yes, I understand that.
Built into workload, yes ok.
Guarantees a supplement and builds in early start allowance, I get that.
It allows the company to compete. Get that too.
Takes anything up to a £1000 a year from the typical postman overnight and gives it to people who have never done a d2d and in many cases never will…
No, sorry I don’t get that.
And what’s the rush? Offices that have never done d2d are not going to start tomorrow. Why give 20 quid a week supplement to some but not compensate the lads who will lose up to £1000 a year?
How is that fair?
I’ve worked out that up to 52 postmen and women will be worse off in our office because of this agreement. I cannot believe that this is what the Union and Royal Mail wanted. The more successful an area or office or individual is the more he (or she) suffers.
The Union tell us that ‘there are some losers in regard to current payments’. Yes, thousands of them. Why should some postmen be expected to take a hit whilst others receive extra?
I know for a fact that the CWU is only now checking d2d figures for individual offices and they are beginning to understand that the typical postman who does d2d is substantially worse off. That’s the typical postman not the misleading average, taking out those who do none or very few.
Now, let me be very clear.
I am not looking for a bigger pot of money I am looking for the contents of that pot to be more fairly distributed, a gradual change to payments and an acceptance that there are many people losing out. There are no extra costs involved. None.
A keystone of the agreement is ‘Transforming Relationships’ a paragraph of which states “Having agreed a shared vision of modernisation both parties will focus all our efforts on working together to deliver that vision.” It also states, “The following is our shared vision of modernisation and defines the overriding objectives of this agreement - A successful company that supports ongoing improvements to employee terms and conditions…”
If this is not to be the usual blah blah and is to be the start of a new relationship then the company and the union must prove that by listening to the many thousands of postmen who have been penalised by the d2d money distribution.
It is not good enough for officials to lecture but not listen.
It is not right for officials to state that there is no ‘plan B’.
It is just wrong that officials tell us they have secured a new relationship but to then ignore the views of its own members.
The countdown to the ballot has begun but there is still plenty of time to look at this area again. Why will the Union not look again at this when so many reps and postmen have objected? CWU officials know the scale of the problem but they are not listening.
I don’t want to vote ‘no’ I want the CWU to listen to us and to work with Royal Mail to sort this out. If I vote ‘no’ it will be because Royal Mail and the CWU have refused to listen and the talk of a ‘shared vision’ is bogus.

I accept the need for change.
I accept the need for a fresh approach to d2d.
I am not asking for a bigger pot of money.
I am looking for the contents of that pot to be more fairly distributed.
I am asking for fairness.
I am asking Royal Mail and the CWU to listen to their postmen.

Great post.

[dvbuk55]

I hadn't seen this yesterday but I am happy to see its location - I think it is more than fair to this agreement, but the whole point of listening and revisiting the whole rewards issue and the discrimination to part timers is a well formed argument.

This deal is flawed and needs to be looked at again and amendments made.

I personally believe the CWU are on a wing and a prayer with this vote. Areas and Branchs I believe are telling them what they want to hear without the inclusion of the members.