MY reasons for a NO vote

[brandydoguk]

I've read through most of the threads on here, and tried to understand all the arguments on both sides. I have come up with my own reasons for voting no.

1. DOMs: They seem to have their own agenda when running their office, regardless of whatever agreements are in place. I do not trust any of them and have seen numerous instances of them fiddling georoute to get people to do longer deliveries. I am now expected to put my trust in them?

2. The public reaction: I deliver in a rough arsed estate, drug dealers, career dole collectors etc. I am picturing their reaction when their giros start arriving on a Saturday after the local post office has closed. I will be lucky to get home alive!

3. CDVs: A great idea in theory, but I bet the new walks will be so much harder that we will have to go flat out to complete. The problems start when I end up with someone who works at a dfferent speed. With the best will in the world I can't deliver as quickly as some 20 something guy (I'm 47), he's going to be so pissed off it will end up in a right argument. Or what if I end up with some spanner who is totally feckless and due to him we can't complete by the duty finish time? I can see no safeguards in this agreement that will prevent my manager from trying to bully one of us into working much harder to compensate for the other. Fair and ballanced workload? Ha!

4. Stress and fatigue: This part of the agreement is so wishy washy it might as well not be in it. I get home now and my feet and legs ache to buggery and I just flop down on the couch for an hour to let the pain subside. (Not just me, a lot of the guys in my office say the same) With no limit on the delivery span I could end up crippled. Does the agreement mean georoute will make any allowance for the terrain the walks are covering or will I still have to slog up and down steps and hills at the same speed as a guy whose walk is on the flat with no steps? I bet it doesn't, or won't if the DOM has anything to do with it.

5. D2D: I can actually understand what the union and RM are saying as to why they want no cap and no payment for them, I don't agree but can see why it will be brought in. But when they run georoute at 85% or whatever call rate knowing full well that there will be more days than ever where we will have 100% call rates due to day specific D2D is a ridiculous state of affairs. It's all well and good cutting off at the finish time but then it is back to how much crap will I get from my manager that day and the public the next day when they didn't get their mail?

6. The CWU: When these new machines come in they will effectively make the job part time for the majority of duties. In order to manipulate a predominately full time workforce the union has actually agreed to degrading our working conditions. This must be the only industry where automation will increase significantly the physical workload on its workers and the union has actually backed it.


The nub of it is I can see nothing but arguments and hassle with these new working practices and this agreement does absolutely nothing to stop it happening. Our working conditions now are physically hard now, they will become so much harder when these changes start coming in and this agreement does nothing to prevent it. CWU reps please note I have made no mention of money, to be honest as long as the bonus culture remains in place in RM we will always get shafted.

[coxie]

im just going to vote no and hope for the best

[viking]

couldnt have put it any better than you. its a definate NO from me

[DirtyHarry]

Very well put, brandydoguk.
Not a single thought has been given to the poor buggers over the age of 40, and who will be expected to match the 20-somethings, step for step.
Christ almighty, what I wouldn't give to have the power to make a tosser like Crozier/Higson/Tolhurst, do a delivery every day for what remains of their useless existence on this planet.

[horris_1uk]

Do the executive members of the union really have any idea what it is like for the postmen and women that actually do the work or are they as out of touch with reality as Royal Mail themselves.

[banner18]

I've read through most of the threads on here, and tried to understand all the arguments on both sides. I have come up with my own reasons for voting no.

1. DOMs: They seem to have their own agenda when running their office, regardless of whatever agreements are in place. I do not trust any of them and have seen numerous instances of them fiddling georoute to get people to do longer deliveries. I am now expected to put my trust in them?

2. The public reaction: I deliver in a rough arsed estate, drug dealers, career dole collectors etc. I am picturing their reaction when their giros start arriving on a Saturday after the local post office has closed. I will be lucky to get home alive!

3. CDVs: A great idea in theory, but I bet the new walks will be so much harder that we will have to go flat out to complete. The problems start when I end up with someone who works at a dfferent speed. With the best will in the world I can't deliver as quickly as some 20 something guy (I'm 47), he's going to be so pissed off it will end up in a right argument. Or what if I end up with some spanner who is totally feckless and due to him we can't complete by the duty finish time? I can see no safeguards in this agreement that will prevent my manager from trying to bully one of us into working much harder to compensate for the other. Fair and ballanced workload? Ha!

4. Stress and fatigue: This part of the agreement is so wishy washy it might as well not be in it. I get home now and my feet and legs ache to buggery and I just flop down on the couch for an hour to let the pain subside. (Not just me, a lot of the guys in my office say the same) With no limit on the delivery span I could end up crippled. Does the agreement mean georoute will make any allowance for the terrain the walks are covering or will I still have to slog up and down steps and hills at the same speed as a guy whose walk is on the flat with no steps? I bet it doesn't, or won't if the DOM has anything to do with it.

5. D2D: I can actually understand what the union and RM are saying as to why they want no cap and no payment for them, I don't agree but can see why it will be brought in. But when they run georoute at 85% or whatever call rate knowing full well that there will be more days than ever where we will have 100% call rates due to day specific D2D is a ridiculous state of affairs. It's all well and good cutting off at the finish time but then it is back to how much crap will I get from my manager that day and the public the next day when they didn't get their mail?

6. The CWU: When these new machines come in they will effectively make the job part time for the majority of duties. In order to manipulate a predominately full time workforce the union has actually agreed to degrading our working conditions. This must be the only industry where automation will increase significantly the physical workload on its workers and the union has actually backed it.


The nub of it is I can see nothing but arguments and hassle with these new working practices and this agreement does absolutely nothing to stop it happening. Our working conditions now are physically hard now, they will become so much harder when these changes start coming in and this agreement does nothing to prevent it. CWU reps please note I have made no mention of money, to be honest as long as the bonus culture remains in place in RM we will always get shafted.

Can't disagree with much of what you have said here. The problem is this. We have to have an agreement of some kind to deal with automation.

Your first point cannot be dealt with unless we sack all frontline managers and replace them. In reality, the best we can hope for is representation locally. We will have this according to the agreement.

Your second point cannot be addressed unless there is no six day work plan. Without a six day work plan, all the other parts of the agreement relating to it, 4 day weeks, d2d in workload etc would be in jeopardy. Of course it is possible to have shorter saturdays, but it costs and RM look like they want to save money here.

Your third point surrounds CDVs. The problem is that CDVs are necessary to take the weight off the shoulder which in turn is necessary so that delivery spans can be increased to maintain full time jobs. No CDVs basically means a part time industry would only be possible.
Surely, when these duties are planned, people of similar ages and abilities will be matched otherwise it would cause no end of trouble for all.

Your fourth point about fatigue has the same problem, a part time industry.

Fifth point, D2D will have to be absorbed into workload sooner or later regardless of this agreement.

Your sixth point I completely agree with. Regardless of the agreement or what the CWU want, part time will be the future of this industry.

What could fundamentally be different about the agreement that would allow automation to exist alongside full time duties alongside health and safety?

[Clive]

I will be voting NO, ..........absorbing of my grandfarther rights allowance..........and D2D payments and a pay rise will leave me with a pay cut............has the union gone mad..........the only way for me to increase my pay with this deal is resign from the union and save £3..........

[horris_1uk]

i've heard a lot of people saying that if there is a yes vote then they will be coming out of the union, I was just wondering how many other people feel the same way? after all non union members are getting the same deal as union members

[steve2zaf]

i've heard a lot of people saying that if there is a yes vote then they will be coming out of the union, I was just wondering how many other people feel the same way? after all non union members are getting the same deal as union members

i will certainly be resigning from the union if this does go ahead

[The clown]

i've heard a lot of people saying that if there is a yes vote then they will be coming out of the union, I was just wondering how many other people feel the same way? after all non union members are getting the same deal as union members

never mind the union i want to resign from royal mail

[mucker]

Very well put, brandydoguk.
Not a single thought has been given to the poor buggers over the age of 40, and who will be expected to match the 20-somethings, step for step.
Christ almighty, what I wouldn't give to have the power to make a tosser like Crozier/Higson/Tolhurst, do a delivery every day for what remains of their useless existence on this planet.

what i wouldnt give to see ward and hayes out on a delivery..............

[mucker]

2. The public reaction: I deliver in a rough arsed estate, drug dealers, career dole collectors etc. I am picturing their reaction when their giros start arriving on a Saturday after the local post office has closed. I will be lucky to get home alive!

sorry mate no2 made me chuckle

[DirtyHarry]

what i wouldnt give to see ward and hayes out on a delivery..............

Me too, mucker.....in fact.....I'd pay good money to watch 'em !

[mucker]

what i wouldnt give to see ward and hayes out on a delivery..............

Me too, mucker.....in fact.....I'd pay good money to watch 'em !

we need to run a book on who would be the first to chuck in the towell

[DirtyHarry]

we need to run a book on who would be the first to chuck in the towell [/quote]

My money would be on the twat who had a Greggs on their round.